How old is this kitchen?

[^woody^]

Part of the tenancy agreement says the kitchen doesn't need to be repaired/replaced until over twenty years, and we can't even do it ourselves, especially as the doors are different sizes. Other photos of the kitchen show it falling apart more, but I tried to send the better pictures.

Is that the point of your post, you want a new kitchen?

The landlord is responsible for maintaining the existing units and worksurfaces, and if they are in need of replacement, they must be replaced - even if that is before the programmed replacement date.

This is under the implied terms of your tenancey agreement, under the HHSRS and Environmental Protection law (based on hygiene).

You are also permitted to replace the kitchen units if you wanted to, and permission can not be withheld without a very good reason. You then will take responsibility for it.

 

[giveitabashDIY]

Thanks for that.

The landlord is a large corporate scheme negotiated through work on the basis that I am required to move very often. My rent is based on condition and age (as well as a few other things) of the property and so I'm not trying for a new kitchen (though it would be nice!) but trying to ensure I am paying the appropriate rent.

I'm already arguing about the condition, but if I could prove that the 2002 installation date on their form (probably just plucked out of thin air) is not true and that it was more likely installed pre 1995, then I have a much stronger case. Over 20 years is a cut and dry argument if I can prove it. Condition is much a more personal opinion.

Your right, I can replace the units, but they can insist I return the kitchen to the state it was when I moved in....even if I have installed a 20k kitchen!) mad I know!

Sorry to ramble and I really appreciate the advice.

I guess I was hoping (long shot) that someone who had been installing kitchens for years might either recognise this type or give me an idea if this sort of kitchen stopped being installed in the 90s for example.

 

[^woody^]

I don't know how you can prove an installation date unless you have the actual date. We buy kitchens and can store them for several years for instance.

I'm also confused how it could affect the rent as that would be based on the condition, not the age.

As I said, landlords are still fitting that type now and have beyond doing so for many years.

 

[giveitabashDIY]

I know, can't prove it, that's why I was clutching at straws on here hoping someone might know something I don't. Storing them for several years is interesting though, I would have assumed that companies would avoid having money tied up in stock for so long, as well of course the additional cost of storing it. But if not, then that certainly undermines the point of a sticker which went out of date in 1995 (and present in a kitchen supposedly installed in 2002). I know it's not proof, but nobody (me nor the landlord/company) have any proof either way.

As for rent being based on condition not age, the DCLG Decent Homes Standard states that

5.13 One or more key components, or two or more other components, must be both old

and in poor condition to render the dwelling non-decent on grounds of disrepair.

Components that are old but in good condition or in poor condition but not old

would not, in themselves, cause the dwelling to fail the standard.


There is a reference later stating that landlords 'should' replace comments which fail earlier than expected, i.e. before they are old. The should is the get out clause the company is using to avoid doing anything.

 

[Bosswhite]

Are they unusable then, a cupboard is a cupboard ???

 

[giveitabashDIY]

Exactly. Useable yes, like you say a cupboard is a cupboard. But doors don't close properly and pop open, chunks missing where repairs have been made over and over or child locks removed and replaced, the worktop flexs in one area, stains and wear and tear all over including patches where the melamine has worn through.

I know there are many people out there in far worse situations than me. And this isn't a bid for sympathy or me just try to get a landlord to give me a new kitchen. This is about making sure the company charges me correctly, or carries out the obligations of it, and stops fobbing me off like it does to so many others.

 

[PaulWoodsHome]

It looks well old with those aluminum rails. I would say it was fitted in the 80s.

 

[^woody^]

As for rent being based on condition not age, the DCLG Decent Homes Standard states that

You are not in social housing are you? Your prevous post about the rental situation indicates not, and so the Decent Home Standard wont apply. The three areas of L&T that you can rely on for disrepair or habitable standards were posed previously

And I can't understand how you plan to get a rent reduction based on the kitchen age, as rents are not set like that and are not adjusted based on age of individual components.

 

[giveitabashDIY]

No not in social housing, but the DCLG does apply as it's the basis of the accommodation scheme I have access to through work.

Rent is standardised, set by bands according to a few things including condition and age, and if it doesn't meet certain standards/criteria then the rental band goes down.

its the dispute of the recorded age and condition which brought me on here in the first place. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Bosswhite]

IMO you are very unlikely to get a new kitchen .

 

[Doggit]

Have you actually asked them to come and asses the kitchen, and then to comment on it. They may be assuming that the kitchens serviceable and adequate for needs, but would change tack when they see it.

 

[DaveHerns]

I'm guessing this is Army accommodation in which case he's lucky it's not worse!

 

[Ian H]

I'm guessing this is Army accommodation in which case he's lucky it's not worse!

I was thinking communal kitchen in a 'massage parlour'

 

[giveitabashDIY]

And I bet they can't prove it was installed in 2002. I would be staggered if they had any supporting evidence.

Agreed - they have "survey data" but I have already proved other things on it incorrect. I'm trying to get hold of the evidence that states the kitchen was installed in 2002, when I have reason to believe (just no evidence) that it was much earlier.

IMO you are very unlikely to get a new kitchen .

Agreed - they will replace the kitchen in the next couple of years, but I will probably have moved on by then! But as I said earlier in this thread, I'm not looking for a new kitchen, I'm looking to pay the correct rent.

Have you actually asked them to come and asses the kitchen, and then to comment on it. They may be assuming that the kitchens serviceable and adequate for needs, but would change tack when they see it.

Actually got someone coming around again to do a survey again soon. Oddly enough, the company knows it needs replacing as they have a large refurbishment programme ongoing, this house is on the list of to be done, but there is no detail on when yet. Unfortunately I don't have access to the housing packs, and so all I can go on is on what I see around and perhaps some advice from people who know about these things (kitchen fitters/developers etc on here for example)

As Dave probably knows....there are a lot of people in similar (and much worse) situations...some fight it, many run out of steam when the company just continues to reply with crap answers.

 

[Brigadier]

Try paying what you assess to be "fair rent", and see what happens?