how to cap off unused wires to regs..

[Essex1]

As you are new here, do you know what "non-combustible" means in the case of the new regulations? NO one else does.

If he didn't know before, one hope that his "Amd3 update" will have taught him! ... so, as you imply, we must all wait with bated breath for him to educate us all!

Kind Regards, John

With respect you have no qualifications or experience (by your own admittance).

Your arrogance really knows no bounds, does it? John is without a doubt one of the most knowledgeable, helpful and reasonable people on this forum. Quite the opposite from you, in fact.

You may well be right. The fact is I think John is here to make himself feel good. Any electrician/responsible person worth their salt would NEVER give permission for an un-trained person to access live parts. It is at best irrisponsible at worst un-ethical and dangerous.

I would be sacked if I ever done such a thing. Rightly so too.

 

[JohnW2]

Your arrogance really knows no bounds, does it? John is without a doubt one of the most knowledgeable, helpful and reasonable people on this forum. Quite the opposite from you, in fact.

Thank you - although I would not go anything like as far as you have in 'selling myself'!

I think it was you who previously suggested that we are all making a big mistake by 'feeding' this latest phenomenon, and I have to say that I am coming to think that is very true, and that we should all act 'appropriately'. Whether it is 'nippable in the bud' only time will tell.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Essex1]

I am aware of some silly people that cannot open a dictionary.
adjective
made of material that does not burn if exposed to fire; incombustible.

Oh dear - if only it were as simple as that. Are you just naive, or what?

The main question is whether passing the "non-combustible" test of BS EN 61439-3 (as required by 421.1.201) (but which obviously does not mean 'totally unable to burn if exposed to fire') is enough to satisfy 421.1.201 and, if so, why they have bothered to include 421.1.201(i)? ... and, if not, what on earth is the requirement, if it goes beyond what is required by the Standard?

Kind Regards, John

It is a simple as that. How do you suppose the manufacturers have released 3rd amendment CUs already. Don't believe everything you read on forums and think for yourself.

A non-combustible material is one that self-extinguishes when exposed to fire.

 

[JohnW2]

You may well be right. The fact is I think John is here to make himself feel good.

Hmmm. Pots and kettles come to mind!

Any electrician/responsible person worth their salt would NEVER give permission for an un-trained person to access live parts. It is at best irrisponsible at worst un-ethical and dangerous.

I don't know if that is meant to relate to anything specific, but does it also apply to all those people (many of them electricians) who 'give permission for an untrained person' to take his/her multimeter to a live switch, ceiling rose or whatever (which, ironically, is something that I very rarely suggest/advise)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Any electrician/responsible person worth their salt would NEVER give permission for an un-trained person to access live parts.

That depends on what you mean by untrained; the law would seem to disagree with you.

Competence is all it requires; how that is achieved is not defined.

 

[JohnW2]

It is a simple as that. How do you suppose the manufacturers have released 3rd amendment CUs already. Don't believe everything you read on forums and think for yourself. ... A non-combustible material is one that self-extinguishes when exposed to fire.

I'm very pleased to hear that at least one person fully understands the new regulation. I presume that, with all your knowledge about this, you are aware of the fact that at least some manufacturers appear to be offering BS EN 61439-3 compliant 'non-combustible' CUs which are not metal? Are you saying that they will not be compliant with Amd3, or what?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Essex1]

You may well be right. The fact is I think John is here to make himself feel good.

Hmmm. Pots and kettles come to mind!

Any electrician/responsible person worth their salt would NEVER give permission for an un-trained person to access live parts. It is at best irrisponsible at worst un-ethical and dangerous.

I don't know if that is meant to relate to anything specific, but does it also apply to all those people (many of them electricians) who 'give permission for an untrained person' to take his/her multimeter to a live switch, ceiling rose or whatever (which, ironically, is something that I very rarely suggest/advise)?

Kind Regards, John

Of course not. As long as they are under direct supervision.

 

[EFLImpudence]

There is an interesting post here; go to 8 May 6,52pm:

http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=61685

 

[Essex1]

Any electrician/responsible person worth their salt would NEVER give permission for an un-trained person to access live parts.

That depends on what you mean by untrained; the law would seem to disagree with you.

Competence is all it requires; how that is achieved is not defined.

You are correct that competance is not defined. Although Amd 3 have altered this to 'skilled person electrically'.

The difference is. To have no qualifications and rely on competance you will be questioned.

To follow the route defined by the JIB entitles you not to be questioned IMO.

 

[JohnW2]

Of course not. As long as they are under direct supervision.

In what sense are DIYers who are advised by electricians in this internet forum to take their multimeter to a live switch, ceiling rose or whatever "under direct supervision"?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Essex1]

It is a simple as that. How do you suppose the manufacturers have released 3rd amendment CUs already. Don't believe everything you read on forums and think for yourself. ... A non-combustible material is one that self-extinguishes when exposed to fire.

I'm very pleased to hear that at least one person fully understands the new regulation. I presume that, with all your knowledge about this, you are aware of the fact that at least some manufacturers appear to be offering BS EN 61439-3 compliant 'non-combustible' CUs which are not metal? Are you saying that they will not be compliant with Amd3, or what?

Kind Regards, John

I have personally not seen any yet but don't see an issue as long as they have been tested in line with the standard. Non-combustible does not mean metallic only.

 

[Essex1]

Of course not. As long as they are under direct supervision.

In what sense are DIYers who are advised by electricians in this internet forum to take their multimeter to a live switch, ceiling rose or whatever "under direct supervision"?

Kind Regards, John

Because safe live working practises would require any live working to have at least one other person with them while accessing live parts. This other person would also need to be competent to know what to do if the person testing was to get an electric shock. Ie - safely isolate and get the tester into a position of safety.

 

[JohnW2]

I have personally not seen any yet but don't see an issue as long as they have been tested in line with the standard. Non-combustible does not mean metallic only.

Indeed not, but since you are clever enough to understand that it is so simple, can you please explain to me what 421.1.201 means by requiring that CUs be compliant with BS EN 61439-3 (which includes a test of 'non-combustibility') AND [per 421.1.210(i)] be constructed out of non-combustible material (or enclosed in a non-combustible enclosure)? Does that mean that complying with the 'non-combustibility' requirement of the Standard is enough, or not, or what?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Of course not. As long as they are under direct supervision.

In what sense are DIYers who are advised by electricians in this internet forum to take their multimeter to a live switch, ceiling rose or whatever "under direct supervision"?

Because safe live working practises would require any live working to have at least one other person with them while accessing live parts. This other person would also need to be competent to know what to do if the person testing was to get an electric shock. Ie - safely isolate and get the tester into a position of safety.

Are you able to answer my question (above)?

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

A non-combustible material is one that self-extinguishes when exposed to fire.

No, that's a self-extinguishing material.