How to improve insulation

[Serenity74]

If the radiators upstairs get so hot you can't touch them then I'd be closing the lockshield a bit, this may also make the downstairs radiators be hotter

They all get that hot, that's what led me to thinking drafts or insulation were an issue. The thermostat is on the wall in the hall and at the moment is set to 22. The actual temperature in the hall tends to be 0.5 - 1 deg colder but its about right. If I put a thermometer on the table where I sit in the lounge that is currently 20 and its warm enough.

Tonight I'll put the thermostat up to 24 but later in the evening the lounge won't get above about 18 and it feels absolutely freezing.

To further confuse thing I tested the temperature at my parents, when my thermometer reads 16-18 there its about the right temperature and doesn't feel cold at all.

I'm possibly overthinking it but something doesn't seem right.

 

[Mr Chibs]

Are the floors cold as well?

Are they suspended or solid concrete.

If either, and not insulated, this will be leeching away some heat from said rooms.

 

[Serenity74]

Are the floors cold as well?

Are they suspended or solid concrete.

If either, and not insulated, this will be leeching away some heat from said rooms.

From the survey:
The floors are predominantly of suspended timber, floorboard on joist construction. The exceptions are the floors in the porch, understairs cupboard and kitchen, which are of solid concrete construction.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Tonight I'll put the thermostat up to 24 but later in the evening the lounge won't get above about 18 and it feels absolutely freezing.

To further confuse thing I tested the temperature at my parents, when my thermometer reads 16-18 there its about the right temperature and doesn't feel cold at all.

That would suggest a draft, or dampness. My hall stat is on 18C at the moment, I'm sitting in the living room with the door between open. No I'm not cold, but may nudge it up soon humidity is 47% indoors, 85% outdoors.

 

[Serenity74]

My B&D thermal leak detector has arrived, not sure if its going to help or drive me mad!

Thermostat is currently at 23. Internal walls are 21 - 22 as is the ceiling, floor is 20, exterior walls are 19.

Front door is 20 and around the edge of the door 17 - 19, back door in the kitchen is 17, around the edge drops as low as 15.

Lounge windows are 17 - 18, kitchen windows are 15 - 17.

Not really sure what I have or haven't proved there.

 

[mikeey84]

Measure the temps at the bottom of the walls where the floor and wall meet.

Measure around the kitchen door into the front room.

If there are draughts, these are the places they are likely coming from

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Not really sure what I have or haven't proved there.

You are looking for areas around the door/ floor which are cooler than the rest of the similar areas, that will suggest a cooling air flow in those particular areas. Too be fair, none of those listed values are particularly low or cold, I would expect similar here. Could it be you who is particularly sensitive to cold?

Pointing it at some surfaces - glass, will not produce a true value. For accuracy, black electrical insulation tape works better.

Also try pointing it as the sky outdoors, -40 is not unusual.

 

[Serenity74]

Measure the temps at the bottom of the walls where the floor and wall meet.

Measure around the kitchen door into the front room.

The temps at the bottom of the wall are about 2 deg lower than the top but its a gradual decline rather than a sudden drop off. No sign of a drop where the floor and wall meet. Same around the kitchen door, no real drop off from the wall surrounding it.

Too be fair, none of those listed values are particularly low or cold, I would expect similar here. Could it be you who is particularly sensitive to cold?

Wouldn't rule anything out but I can be at my parents and have a thermometer showing its 18 and be warm enough, the thermometer on the table in front of me says 20 at the moment and its pretty cold. Maybe I need to turn the rad in the hall with no TVR off completely and / or ramp the temp up on the thermostat. Something seems off. At least it seems the most expensive option of external insulation isn't the solution!

 

[Serenity74]

Last night by obsessively taking the temperature everywhere I've worked out the lounge is generally about 3 deg colder than the hall. Right by the Windows in the lounge is a couple of degs colder but there's not a huge drop.

I tried ramping up the temperature a couple of degrees on the thermo to see if it made any difference to the temp readings, I've done it before and it didn't seem to feel much warmer but thought I'd try and get an actual reading. Was thinking it didn't seem to have made any difference when I discovered after upping the temperature the boiler had gone off and now won't come back on. Engineer coming out this afternoon to take a look so good chance to grill him about what is happening.

Interestingly, or maybe worryingly, the temperature in the bedroom this morning was no different to when the heating is on! On one hand good that I didn't wake up in an ice box but on the other either the house is incredible at retaining the warmth from when the heating was last on or something is def up.

 

[JohnD]

does the living room have carpet, or bare boards?

does it have a fireplce?

how many external walls?

what are the dimensions of the room, and of the radiator?

 

[Serenity74]

Pump had failed and has now been replaced. No idea yet if this will help with the problem of the lounge being cold but the engineer that came out suggested turning the rad in the hall off as he thinks its getting so hot there the thermostat is switching the system off while the rest of the house isn't heated enough.

He had a look and said without calculating it properly but going off having worked in other houses in the area the rads in the lounge should be up to the job.

Interesting this morning when the heating wasn't working the temperature didn't seem much different to when it was working!

I guess it could just be that the pump has been on its way out for a while and the system not working as well as it should.

 

[Serenity74]

does the living room have carpet, or bare boards?

does it have a fireplce?

how many external walls?

what are the dimensions of the room, and of the radiator?

It has laminate at the moment but I plan to carpet it at some point. Got a couple of rugs down at the moment until I can get it carpeted.

There is a boarded up fireplace. Looking at old listings on Rightmove there was a fire there not too long ago so hoping it will be relatively straightforward to get one put in at some point in the future, surround needs ripping out and replacing as well.

External wall at the front, neighbours on either side, shared wall with the kitchen extension at the back.

Room is 6.9 x 3.1 m. 2 single panel radiators, both 70 x 30 cm

 

[cwhaley]

Your house looks identical (in terms of layout) to mine and they are very similar ages. You also have part-concrete floors as well as solid brick walls. We had the same problems you have described when we moved in 5-6 year ago. I wouldn't worry about all the bits of cosmetic damage as they are never, ever described as they are in reality.

I'm sure some of these will have been suggested and apologies if they have. The things I did which made the biggest difference to heat retention were to:

- Insulate the single-skin bay window above the downstairs bay window (if you have one)
- Upgrade the loft insulation. My energy provider organised this for free (as I think most of them do). I did have the recommended amount in some spots but it was patchy in some places, so when I boarded the loft out I just removed most of it for when the surveyor came out so I'd definitely get the upgrade.
- CARPET! -- the original floorboards had been lovingly sanded, stained and varnished but I had the entire upstairs carpeted after about 3 months. You'd be surprised the difference it makes.
- Bleed the radiators
- Replace seals and hinges on windows which did not close properly.
- Move the thermostat from above a radiator to the bedroom so the heating would stop when the true desired temperature was reached (by that, I mean it'll switch off when the room reaches the desired temp., rather than the air space directly above a radiator).

 

[mikeey84]

Any room should, if the heating is on full blast for an extended period (all day), and TRVs are turned up to 6, get warm, bordering on hot, say 22, if the boiler isn't being turned off by the thermostat.

If your rooms are not getting to those temperatures with the conditions listed, you either have all your warm air escaping somewhere cold, a huge influx of cold air, or your radiators are not powerful enough/working properly. Or your thermostat is turning the heating off too soon. If you have a modern condenser boiler, I would suggest getting bigger radiators. Switching singles to doubles is cheaper and straightforward

 

[^woody^]

My B&D thermal leak detector has arrived, not sure if its going to help or drive me mad!

You will be on a fool's errand if you don't know how to interpret readings.

A certain temperature of a surface does not equate to it being a "cold" surface or that the air (ie room) around it is a cold room.

Send it back under the 7 day returns period.