Ian Tomlinson 'seemed drunk', G20 police officer says

[matt1e]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12896450
Maybe, but it doesn't look to me if he was causing any bother
I get drunk too sometimes but can honestly say I never cause any trouble either

I hope I never get unlawfully killed because of it, especially of some thug in uniform
ps I am not anti establishment,quite the reverse
I just call a spade a spade

 

[misterdubya]

That piece of scum should be on trial for manslaughter.

Mr. W.

 

[cumbriahandyman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12896450
Maybe, but it doesn't look to me if he was causing any bother
I get drunk too sometimes but can honestly say I never cause any trouble either

I hope I never get unlawfully killed because of it, especially of some thug in uniform
ps I am not anti establishment,quite the reverse
I just call a spade a spade

With the speed he managed to get his hands out of his pockets suggests he was stone cold sober!

And anyway, the police will know that people who have had strokes (even some years ago) can look and sound drunk. So even less reason for the assumption on their part.

Just another example of police brutality.

 

[merlin50]

I was told by a police man that when you see a police man with his trousers bloused into his boots get out of his way or you will get a kicking.

 

[libby lou lou]

A few may know me by my background, This is more proof that the establishment is bent, you can't beat e'm, join e'm.

 

[imamartian]

Arguing with someone with fixed views is really like pishing into the wind... but if any of you are serious in looking for a debate around the OP's comment, then humour me here...

Let's get all this in context...

a. you wouldn't expect to be walking around Tesco's and have a copper charge up to you and beat you to the ground with a baton, i think we'd all agree that.
- but there was a riot happening when this guy died.

There are some assumptions here:

- the police were told to move people away from the area (that's what it looked like they were doing).
- you must act overly confident/firm when moving people away in a riot (any action seen as 'weak' will be exploited by anarchists, troublemakers).

The OP comments on the suggestion this guy was drunk. Well people who are ill can look drunk, but he did look drunk. I thought he was making a point of moving slowly when being told to move quickly.

Now that could've been because he was poorly, or tired, or confused, or drunk or just being a pain in the ass!!
The coppers in this situation can't be social workers, or carers, they have to be firm, and clear in what they want to happen. And i believe it's completely reasonable to push a guy to encourage him to move on in these circumstances.

It's said he was brutally killed... well there's such a fine line between words like brutally and assertive. This guy was pushed horizontally... he wasn;t beaten or trampled....it's unfortunate.

Mattie you say you've been drunk and not caused trouble - this guy looked like he was drunk and moving more slowly than the police required.... that'll be illegal then.

 

[libby lou lou]

The untouchable was probebly(sp)drunk, drugged, do these people ever get tested for drugs?.

 

[imamartian]

The untouchable was probebly(sp)drunk, drugged, do these people ever get tested for drugs?.

you obviously hate the police... and can't see any context to this. You might as well say that this copper had checked out Tomlinson's medical records days before and knew just where to "whack" him in order to cause as much damage as possible to the guy !!!

 

[Mickymoody]

I've been 'kettled' by police, at football matches, and the adrenaline of police leads them to hit out, against innocent people. They have all the gear on, group mentality, solidarity. Whether this guy was drunk, or being abusive by walking away slowly, in rebellion, the police took offence, and pushed him to the floor. Maybe an accident that he may have hit his head on the floor, but other people floored by one punch, that died as a consequence, people have been prosecuted. But as it's the police, nobody will be prosecuted. Them and Us culture.

 

[imamartian]

I've been 'kettled' by police, at football matches, and the adrenaline of police leads them to hit out, against innocent people. They have all the gear on, group mentality, solidarity. Whether this guy was drunk, or being abusive by walking away slowly, in rebellion, the police took offence, and pushed him to the floor. Maybe an accident that he may have hit his head on the floor, but other people floored by one punch, that died as a consequence, people have been prosecuted. But as it's the police, nobody will be prosecuted. Them and Us culture.

Moody, you use emotive words...."pushed him to the floor" really IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!

the guy was push horizontally... and fell to the floor. FFS!!!

If you want to hate the cops then thats up to you... but don't twist the facts !!!

 

[imamartian]

And the cops kettleing etc... is an issue to you lot..... but they have to be like that ...

I was in a situation once, many years ago outside a nightclub on my own where i live (in England) and three Scottish guys came up to me and asked where to get a cab from... i suggested the one round the corner and they decided i was worth a kicking for being English (i worked this out from their swearing etc)... well i had no choice but to face up to them... feigned confidenced and got in their face... but obviously trying to help them get a cab.. and they backed off..... that taught me a huge lesson in life....

 

[Nige F]

Did you use the phrase " See you Jimmy"

 

[joinerjohn]

Martian, Had the chap not been pushed by the copper, he'd probably still be alive now. Two other pathologists who conducted post mortems on his body concluded that he died of internal bleeding, caused by a heavy blow to his right side. Even though there were other contributing factors, had he not been pushed, he, wouldn't have died that day. Surely you can't believe that the policeman was right to shove him so hard (or even shove him at all).
My honest opinion, having followed this case, is that the policeman should be charged with manslaughter or reckless endangerment of life. He acted as a complete thug that day, and this was not his first time either. He's a disgrace to the uniform and should be sacked without any pension rights either. That would give him plenty of time to reflect upon the fact that he alone cost Ian Tomlinson his life.
If you believe the policeman was anything approaching, right in his actions, then I have sadly misjudged you.

 

[cumbriahandyman]

- the police were told to move people away from the area (that's what it looked like they were doing).

No, the police were keeping people where they were, kettling.

- you must act overly confident/firm when moving people away in a riot (any action seen as 'weak' will be exploited by anarchists, troublemakers).

They were not moving people away...

I thought he was making a point of moving slowly when being told to move quickly.

Unless you were there, how do you know what was said? He had turned his back on the thug in uniform and was walking away when the thug attacked him pushing him so hard that he fell to the ground. He fell face down so the internal injuries must have been caused by the force of the blow to his back

The coppers in this situation can't be social workers, or carers, they have to be firm, and clear in what they want to happen. And i believe it's completely reasonable to push a guy to encourage him to move on in these circumstances.

Was attacking a man whose back was to the thug walking away reasonable? I think not.

It's said he was brutally killed... well there's such a fine line between words like brutally and assertive.

There is no fine line between assertive and brutality, there is actually a huge divide.

Mattie you say you've been drunk and not caused trouble - this guy looked like he was drunk and moving more slowly than the police required.... that'll be illegal then.

Sorry, but it is not illegal to move slowly on foot. Unless you have evidence to the contrary of course.

You say he looked drunk, that is quite an assumption on your part.

 

[cumbriahandyman]

Ian Tomlinson "posed no threat" to the police at the time he was pushed to the ground, a woman constable has told an inquest on the second anniversary of his death.

PC Kerry Smith also said she was "shocked by the forcefulness of the push" to Tomlinson, a 47-year-old newspaper vendor who died at the G20 protests. Smith said it was clear to her he was not a demonstrator, but he had been told that he could not come through police lines.

Imamartian, you still want to defend this thug of a police officer?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/01/tomlinson-inquest-officer-shocked-push