Ideal Boiler puzzle

[richard Lionheart]

Hi

I wonder if I could have some advice on this situation.

In Jan 2014 a local GasSafe engineer installed a brand new Logic+24 boiler.

He told me it was 5 years warranty, and now to worry , he already registered the warranty with Ideal, and he gave me an 18 digit alphanumeric reference number for this.

The boiler, now 3.5 years old has started to lose pressure - . I Have done the suggested diagnostics, ie

1. Checked all the pipework and radiators for leaks, there definitely are none.
2. Pressure boiler up to 1.5 bar, turn off power, close boiler isolating valves. Pressure still drops.Boiler will go from 1.5 bar to zero over about 12 hours, and drops faster when boiler is off.

Tried to locate the original engineer,looks like he's retired and cleared off to Spain.

Rang Ideal. First thing they said was the boiler warranty wasnt registered with them. When pressured about the 18 digit g'tee reference number id got, they tried to say the engineer had registered it but i also had to activate it. I told them i was not told this and assumed that number was all that was required. They demanded £125 to 'activate; the G'tee, which I reluctantly paid becuse i want the boiler fixed. They wriggled a bit, They asked me if it had been serviced. It hasnt, but I pointed out serviced or not, its should last more than 3.5 years.

Ive googed the fault, the suggestion is its either the Pressure Relief Vale, the Expanions Tank or the Heater core. Either way, ist all covered in the 5 year g'tee (which again contradicts what we recall the engineer saying, he told us 7 years). They said faults caused by not having it serviced would be chargeable. I pointed out Sale of Goods Act, it must be merchantable quality, and by any measure a boiler should last more than 3.5 years. They indicated they were the sole arbiters of manufacturing fault.

However, they booked an engineer to call on 12th Dec, one week form now. so we'll see what happens,.

How do I stand here?

 

[Terrywookfit]

Any warranty is void if recommended annual servicing is not done.

Would you leave a new car 3 years without service.

 

[muggles]

You'll find that, contained within the terms & conditions of the warranty, there is a clause saying that you must get your boiler serviced annually, and failure to do so will invalidate the warranty. As you've now invalidated your warranty by over-running the service schedule by 2.5 years, the answer to the question "how do I stand" is "meekly, in the corner, with your dunce hat on".

It sounds to me like your heat exchanger has cracked and is leaking out through the condensate drain - a more common fault on these boilers than Ideal like to admit. The only solution is either replacement of the heat exchanger, or replacement of the boiler.

If you're VERY nice to them, Ideal *might* agree to replace the heat exchanger for you, but having said that you may have already got their backs up trying to beat them with SoGA, so you may just get a bill for them attending, and a quote to fix.

 

[richard Lionheart]

Right, thanks for that.

Taking your points in, I never saw the warranty document, and i never signed a warranty document, so i fail to see how I can be held to the terms of a contract i havent signed. That was all done by the engineer, whom i cant locate.

I dont wear this, all goods are coverd by Consumer Right law of some sort. Taking Terryrookfits point, you would lalso not expect a brand new car to irretrievable die at 3.5 years. I also think Eu consumer rights might have something about this, ill need to dig further. £1200 every 3.5 years for a boiler is hardly viable, and if it comes to that it woudlnt be an Ideal.

 

[ianmcd]

Most likely your heat exchanger has pinholed, very expensive repair and if your boiler has not been serviced and recorded every year then Ideal will not cover this under any warranty, why should they ? it is clearly stated that this must be done

 

[richard Lionheart]

But how would servicing have prevented pinholing ? It would simply have meant they picked it up earlier, and replaced it earlier... i note they offer 10 year gtees on heat echangers now so they must expect them to last...

 

[muggles]

Well if you're keen to take on a multi-million pound national company in court then good luck to you - I hope you have deep pockets and a blindness to the fact that it would be much cheaper to simply get the boiler repaired. Servicing wouldn't have prevented the failure, but would have prevented you needing to pay for the repair out of your own pocket.

It's a well established principle, used by all boiler manufacturers, that an annual service is a condition of continued warranty cover. You've presumably got the boiler manual somewhere? The warranty conditions are stated in that. Like it or not, you agree to be bound by the T&Cs when you have the boiler installed.

 

[richard Lionheart]

So if servicing wouldnt have prevented the failure, how can they use that to invalidate the g'tee on the basis it hasnt been serviced? To be clear, you are saying such a failure is not prevented by servicing? It a material failure, possibly manufactuting fault?

 

[muggles]

Because servicing is a condition of maintaining the warranty. The fact that you've had a failure not related to servicing is irrelevant, you've not had it serviced and thus your warranty no longer exists, so you can't claim on it. Your failure is possibly a materials failure, but if that is the case then I return to my earlier point that you'll spend more trying to prove it and get compensation, than you would just fixing it which should cost you about £400-£500

 

[Dan Robinson]

Under the SoG act, after this time, it's up to you to prove manufacturing defects anyway. You can try and be a smart arse and ignore the simple facts of the case. You should have had it serviced, you didn't, it's broken, you're fecked.
****

Either way YOU are paying to get thus resolved. I'm sure @shambolic will agree with all we've said.

 

[shambolic]

Under the SoG act, after this time, it's up to you to prove manufacturing defects anyway. You can try and be a smart arse and ignore the simple facts of the case. You should have had it serviced, you didn't, it's broken, you're fecked.
Or stupid.

I can't decide which.

Either way YOU are paying to get thus resolved. I'm sure @shambolic will agree with all we've said.

I may stay away from this one mate.
If he pays the £125 he will get a new hex and have his warranty reinstated. If not he can pay someone over £400 to have the hex replaced. (If that’s the fault)
I don’t know the ins and outs

Right, thanks for that.

Taking your points in, I never saw the warranty document, and i never signed a warranty document, so i fail to see how I can be held to the terms of a contract i havent signed. That was all done by the engineer, whom i cant locate.

I dont wear this, all goods are coverd by Consumer Right law of some sort. Taking Terryrookfits point, you would lalso not expect a brand new car to irretrievable die at 3.5 years. I also think Eu consumer rights might have something about this, ill need to dig further. £1200 every 3.5 years for a boiler is hardly viable, and if it comes to that it woudlnt be an Ideal.

if you failed to get your car serviced and topped up oil etc then you wouldn’t have a leg to stand on in court.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Ya big Jessie

 

[AGAS]

Just think what the last 3 services would have cost you , certainly less than £125 so stop whinging and play the game like the rest have too , other words don't cut your nose off and all all that

 

[richard Lionheart]

See, what really annoys me is ive come here to see how I stand, and all the advice, which I appreciate, has also been doled out with a fair amount of unpleasant comments, insults, and agressive posting.

-"be a smart arse"
" Ya big Jessie"
"stop whinging"

Why were all these necesssary? Why the name calling? I was polite and courteous to you, why is it so difficult to be polite and courteous back? Did you speak to your customers IRL like that? So why speak to me like that?

All you've done is confirm to me, that as well as all energy companies, most plumbers seem to be badly educated , badly mannered ******s as well.

Good bye.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The "Jessie" remark was aimed at Shambo. And, when someone has been repeatedly told the reason for their error but persists in arguing because it isn't what they want to hear, patience wears thin.

Such inability to comprehend a simple principle says more about your education than ours.