Ideal Classic - do I keep it?

[I_know_nothing]

Hi, first post after looking around for a bit. So be gentle with me!

My wife and have been considering getting a new boiler. We have an Ideal Classic NF 50 which has stopped working. We tried to get the problem fixed - a guy replaced the three way valve but that didn't do anything and then after he decided it was something else disappeared. We kind of presumed he failed to get the necessary part.

So we are in the process of getting quotes and a guy came round today for that purpose. And he immediately said, "there's nothing wrong with that - it'll last 30 years!" And that he would fix it.

This has surprised me. I'm sceptical to say the least as a lot of what I've read say boilers last about 15 ish years and that new ones are far more efficient. But then this guy has come out of his way to see us and has talked himself out of a few thousand pounds.

Should we keep it or are we throwing good money after bad?

For info, the broken bit is the circuit board I think.

 

[nickso]

well its certainly not efficient and i thought the pcb's were hard to get a hold of now but maybe im thinking of something else.

they are old troopers though and look like they could last the distance. 30 years is possible for a well maintained one.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Get him to give you a price for fixing it, if it can be done cheaply then keep the boiler until it really needs replacing, and put a few quid each month in to a new boiler fund..

You will have to save an awful lot of gas to recoup the price of a new boiler so I never recommend changing a boiler to save money.

 

[Nixt]

Only replace an Ideal Classic if you have a cracked heat exchanger, not that that's likely.

 

[gasisexpensive]

saw an ideal classic the one that came after the nf,ff250 i think in a skip this morning and the cardboard packaging from new boiler next to it.
sadly the packaging was for an ideal isar he 24.
so sad.

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

saw an ideal classic the one that came after the nf,ff250 i think in a skip this morning and the cardboard packaging from new boiler next to it.
sadly the packaging was for an ideal isar he 24.
so sad.

Ideal Classic - do I keep it?

I vote Yes

 

[I_know_nothing]

So the consensus is that it's worth fixing.

I've had a quote of £280 parts and labour, but then I've seen this - http://tinyurl.com/ypjhev

Is there any reason why I don't just order and fit myself - I'll be saving myself a wedge.

I definitely need to question why there is such a big discrepancy in price don't I.

 

[having_a_gas]

Classics are very good boilers.

You say you think its the PCB faulty, what is the boiler doing?

Are any of the LED's on the pcb on
Does the fan run?
Do you here sparking?

 

[I_know_nothing]

Classics are very good boilers.

You say you think its the PCB faulty, what is the boiler doing?

Are any of the LED's on the pcb on
Does the fan run?
Do you here sparking?

Although the above work ... some of the time!

Often it is a case of heating not staying on, but it also doesn't always start.

The problem seems to be more likely with heating than water, but I think both are affected. There is at least one LED on when the water or heating come on. I'm not sure where it goes wrong from here but it isn't sparking all the time certainly. But (and I can't remember how I discovered this - probably through frustration) if I tap/hit/whack the underside of the PCB another LED lights up and the boiler starts. This [hitting it] also usually works if the heating was going but it has decided to turn itself off even though it's not up to temperature according to the thermostat. And as I said above this cutting out when it is warm is not to do with the three way valve thing because that is new. Unfortunately, it often only fires for 2 or 3 minutes sometimes and then goes off until I hit it again!

We've had three qualified people have a look - the first gas man who disappeared after probably unnecessarily fitting a new three way valve, a guy who came round to do a quote had a peek said it looked like the pcb was faulty, and this latest guy who will fit a new one for 280 quid.[/i]

 

[martyc]

I_Know_nothing

I have an ideal classic NF50
It had the same symptoms you are describing for the last 2 years...a swift thump and it would start up again.
this year i made a few mods to my heating which included moving the boiler to the garage and i contemplated getting a newer model.
I was swayed to persist with what i had even though it was faulty and i went ahead and installed it in the shed.
I am competent in electronics and was pretty sure it was the PCB.
In fact i even narrowed it down to the exact part...one of the relays was goosed.
I picked up a genuine and NEW PCB on ebay for £20 and the boiler hasnt missed a beat since.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260181921744

they are simple to install/swap and if you need a hand describing the job ill help you out.


Here is one currently on ebay with a buy it now of £27...get it and I think you will be very happy!!
And...in the unlikely event (IMO) that it doesnt fix your problem u can sell it again on ebay.


Marty.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ideal-PCB-no-...ryZ42234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[martyc]

Here are my two earlier posts describing the symptoms you have now last october or thereabouts..........

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=713895#713895

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=715017#715017

 

[having_a_gas]

The tapping the boiler you mention can be either as mentioned above, the fan relay is sticking on the PCB or at the start of the ignition sequence the air pressure switch has to prove it self closed before bringing the fan on to open it.

To prove, get someone competant to check - when the boiler is calling for heat if the fan is not running, if their is 230vac at the APS NC contact and C contacts if yes its the PCB if no the APS is stuck open. A common fault with Classics is to have a tiny hole in the impulse tubes that allows a tiny bit of moisture to condense and stop the APS closing. You can try this with the casing off, makes no difference.

But at the ebay price of a pcb you could try that anyway!

 

[Aquaheat]

Most definately keep the boiler. They are more or less bulletproof in terms of reliability and costs to maintain.

With regards to the boiler not firing martyc has hit the nail on the head. The relays on these boards do tend to dry out/ stick etc and the technical nudge does the trick to free it for that once but it always re occours.

A new PCB will do the trick its up to you how you go about it.

1/ buy it and fit yourself. cheaper but no warranties or cover should it not work or breaksdown

2/ Pay the premium and have an engineer do it but remain covered for faults for the next 12 months or should it not cure your initial fault!

All depends on how you feel about the matter. Me? (as an engineer i'm bound to say this but..) get an engineer to do it. You are then covered and there is no onus on you should anything go wrong.

 

[I_know_nothing]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ideal-PCB-no-...ryZ42234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This PCB seems to have a different part no. than our manual. Anyone know if it will fit? Other websites stocking this part seem to indicate it will fit the NF 50. I've emailed the seller, but thought I'd ask here for an indpendent response. So, any ideas?

 

[martyc]

It will fit(i know by looking at it even!!)...its more than likely a newer version than whats currently in your boiler so will have a different revision number.
So youll also benefit from revised electronics.

Mine was a 25B and i think i replaced with a 25E aswell...the number on my original PCB was totally different to the part number in case that is what you are comparing it to.

Instructions to fit it will be included....you wire it differently depending on the boiler its going into...its really simple.
Marty.