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Ideal Classic FF250 issues

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by chrisjsw, 16 Apr 2020.

  1. chrisjsw

    chrisjsw

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    Every couple of weeks we have a situation where it sounds like a train is being driven through the house, pipes banging and what sounds like water boiling. After this happens the reset button on the side of the boiler pops-out and after 30 seconds or so can be reset by pressing it back in.

    A couple of months ago we had a radiator replaced and the Hive system added and this started since this work. All the radiators work fine when the heating is on. The hot water seems to be a bit hotter than I would expect but aside from the above works fine.

    A BG engineer told us a while back that these were brilliant boilers and not to change until it packed in even though it must be quite old.

    Any ideas what the problem might be?
     
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  3. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    sounds like your pump is faulty, the BG engineer was correct best boiler Ideal ever made, the reset button as you call it, is the overheat stat, the heat is not getting out of the boiler, so it operates to protect it
     
  4. chrisjsw

    chrisjsw

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    Thanks Ian.

    Excuse my ignorance but would this be the case as we see this behavior even when the heating is off and the boiler is just heating the water?
     
  5. sxturbo

    sxturbo

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    yep, the same pump runs the heating and hot water, you should have 1 or 2 valves (s or y plan usually)
     
  6. chrisjsw

    chrisjsw

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    So the latest having not been able to get my plumber mate to take a look..............

    I turned the setting on the boiler (the boiler thermostat?) from between 3 and 4 to 2 and this has reduced instances of of this pipe banging etc but it still does it now and again, it has gone from instances every couple of days to every couple of weeks now. I also notice that some of the radiators are cold at the bottom when the heating is on. Also there seems to be a fluctuation in the temperature of the hot water, some days it is as hot as expected, other days its just warm, the tank thermostat is set to around 52/53 degrees.

    Can someone please tell me what this setting on the boiler actually does and why turning it down has helped top a degree? This might help me to determine if I need a plumber or a boiler engineer.

    TIA.
     
  7. Mr.B

    Mr.B

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    Ive still got one of these boilers, the exact same one as yours. It was installed when the house was built in 1995. The first owner of the house was here for ten years and I would think did very little in the way of maintenance.

    In the subsequent 15 years that I've owned it, the boiler has had a gas valve, a fan, an air pressure switch and has been serviced.
    I've fitted two pumps over the years (the current one's a Grundfos). It's had a couple of three way valves too.

    I have a tame heating engineer who doesn't rip me off - plus I can do a lot of the work on the system myself. If I'd paid full rates for everything that's been done it could have got expensive.

    If I'd ripped the complete system out when I moved in and fitted a 35kw combi I might have been no worse off - but, conversely, I might have spent a fortune on repairs and maintenance ... who knows?

    It did start "kettling" 7 years ago and I treated the system with Sentinel X400, then X100 and I now use CalChem Three in One treatment from Toolstation (I really rate that stuff and add one litre annually via a radiator air vent plug.).

    I've also drained and flushed the system once or twice and flushed all the rads out with clean water.

    I've also fitted a Spirotech SpiroTrap MB3 Magnabooster Magnetic Central Heating System Filter and clean it out regularly (easy peasy).

    The water in the system is now clean and everything has been OK for ages.

    If there's anything from the above that you think might help your system then consider doing it as the boiler is rated as being one of Ideal's best ever. If the fan went again I'm not sure what I would do and have given much thought to a replacement - and my current thinking dictates I'd swap this heat only boiler for another (possibly an Intergas).
     
    Last edited: 4 Jun 2020
  8. cdbe

    cdbe

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    I've got one of those, mines a Band B HE model with a little recuperater on it. Bought it years ago off ebay for £8 from someone who thought it was a good idea to replace it with a £4000 Combi installation because it "looked very old fashioned"!

    Great boiler. It sits on the wall in the garage heating up water.

    IMG_20200604_115611657.jpg
     
  9. chrisjsw

    chrisjsw

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    Sorry guys I know nothing about central heating systems or boilers so sadly your post don't really help.

    What does the setting on the boiler which goes from 1 to 6 actually do please ?
     
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  11. cdbe

    cdbe

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    It adjusts, within a small range, the temperature the boiler heats the water too. I think, from reading the instructions years ago that you would typically set it on 6 in winter (high demand for heating and hot water) and 3-4 in summer (for just hot water).
    Ianmcd (who is a htg engineer) has explained that the boiler is overheating (due to pump not pumping hot water away - to cylinder or rads) or blockage in the heat exchanger - in really simple terms a kettle sat on a gas flame with water in. Turning down to 3 just means it won't get quite as hot so will take longer to trip.
    You need a htg engineer, not a plumber.
     
    Last edited: 4 Jun 2020
  12. Mr.B

    Mr.B

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    Like I say, I have this boiler.

    I'm sorry I wrote a load of stuff that the OP doesn't get.

    In answer to the simple question of - what does the 1 to 6 control do? It's a simple thermostat control that controls the temp. of the water within the boiler.

    Mine has never been on 6 (as cdbe suggests might be an option) ... it's been on - or around - 3 for the past 15 years.
     
  13. chrisjsw

    chrisjsw

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    Thanks guys, makes sense now, I'll get a heating engineer in to look at the boiler.

    Thanks to all for the advice.
     
  14. ianmcd

    ianmcd

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    Hello again Chris, as already advised the boiler stat cuts the gas burner when the water inside the boiler reaches the corrosponding temp system, this has a direct effect on your HW, as say you HW thermostat is set at 60 and the boiler stat set to 50, the HW cyl can never go above 50 as the boiler will be cutting off at that, it is quite common for the thermostat sensor harness to go faulty and cause the symptoms you describe theis boiler uses a different system to most boilers but not really expensive and easily changed. Here is a link I know it doesnt mention your boiler but that is the correct one

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IDEAL-CL...162956&hash=item3d1a54bd81:g:n2gAAOSw1KxXNZ7g
     
  15. chrisjsw

    chrisjsw

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    Hi again, its been a while.

    Having put up with kettling for some time, I turned the boiler thermostat down to 2 and replaced the thermostat on the water tank and set it to 58 degrees. It was quiet for a while but it seems that it still kettling when starting up particularly when the tank has gone cold in that all the hot water has been used. I have now turned the tank thermostat down to about 55 degrees to see if this makes any difference (although I know it should be set to 60).

    I never got a heating engineer to look at it as they are either busy or not recommended.

    Is this then a heat exchanger issue? Are these serviceable or does it need to be replaced?

    TIA.
     
  16. kidgreen61

    kidgreen61

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    As explained earlier, the problem is with poor water circulation through the boiler, changing the cylinder stat won't make a scrap of difference.
    You almost certainly have a pump issue.
    The waterways in the boiler heat exchanger are quite wide, and v unlikely to be blocked.
    Has anyone messed with the pump iso valves, and left one/both half shut?
     
  17. chrisjsw

    chrisjsw

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    Sorry to bore you all with this again but this is the latest.............

    I got a heating engineer round to look into this, a recommended chap who seems to know what he's doing, he checked and cleaned the pump and said it was fine, he cleaned a trap/filter of some sort which sits above the boiler which he said was blocked, put some additive in the system (don't know what) tried the system and all seemed well. Note that the system tripped the RCD at one point while he was working on it........read on........

    Literally an hour after he left the heating and hot water sparked up the boiler and immediately tripped the RCD. Called him back but he couldn't make it until the following day so we were without heat overnight but used the immersion heater in the tank for hot water - no big deal.

    When he came the following day everything sprang into life no problem, turned the boiler thermostat up to 6, no problems. Reset it to between 3 and 4 and left it at that.

    It ran OK for 24 hours, boiler very quiet when running.

    Then whilst working in the garden the following day near the boiler vent, I heard the boiler start at the appointed hour for hot water only and about 15-20 minutes later it stopped and a small spurt of water and a few drips came out of the overflow from the tank in the loft. I thought this odd as the boiler stopping and the water drips happened at the same moment so I checked the boiler and the safety cut out had popped so I pushed it back in, no problems.

    Exactly the same time today about 15-20 minutes after the boiler started to heat the water, the system kettled and the safety cut-out popped again. This is without the heating being on, just the hot water. When standing near the boiler when its running I can hear faint clicks/pops.

    My only observations are that the most of the radiators take longer to heat up at the bottom whereas the tops are OK, could sludge have settled at the bottom of the system and now be moving around the system again? The system was drained and flushed about two years ago and was partially drained and refilled when the engineer was here the other day.

    Any help would be appreciated, this has been dragging on for a good while now as you can see from these posts.

    TIA.

    Chris
     
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