Installation Categories - Bathroom fans...

[MattChan]

I have read a few posts about the supply to bathroom fans needing to be fused down to 3A and I have been working on approving a new product with BSI.

Putting these two things together I am wondering if the requirement for the addition fuse with skme manufacturers is actually to make the product into an installation category II product. This has a number of effects on things like creepage and clearance distances on the traces on any PCB etc.

Interestingly swapping the 6A MCB to a 3A wont change the category but putting a 3A fuse after the 6A MCB will even though you have no idea which will blow first in the event of a fault in some situations.

The test engineer I was working with was happy that an FCU puts the device into CAT II even though its still feeding fixed equipment.

Installation categories are also known as over voltage categories and the lower the category the lower the transient voltage the equipment needs to cope with.

Installation categories are defined in iec 60664-1 and shown here:

Has anyone got a fan manual that mentions the installation / overvoltage category used for the CE marking of the product?

Probably a boring post but I guess it may be of use to someone!

 

[EFLImpudence]

The categories you mention relate to test and measuring equipment ratings for different voltages - nothing to do with a fan other than its voltage.

Fuses and MCBs are to protect cables; not the appliances on the end of them.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Whilst I'm personally not sure, atm, exactly what the purpose of IEC 60664-1 may be, I do not think that a fan designer should be relying on an FCU when this will not be present in the rest of europe, and therefore the fan could not attract a CE mark.

 

[MattChan]

They relate to testing but they also relate to the design of equipment.

Take a look at IEC60335-1, IEC61010-1 or IEC60950-1 and other safety standands for design.

They most definitely do relate to fans at the design stage, to declare CE they should comply to safety and EMC standards. My product is currently under going this process...

The appendix sections of 61010-1 etc have lots of table for how much the creepage and clearance on the PCB have to be increased for a given installation category.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Since you know that it will not be three fuses away from sub-station in the rest of Europe, you cannot assume this and still sell in Europe (including atm) the UK, because you will not be able to apply the CE mark which covers all applicable standards. If you can, there is something very wrong.

 

[MattChan]

DetlefSchmitz it doesnt really work like that. Some designers generally dont consider the end application or if it requires a price bump on the product wont be allowed to consider it.

Part of the safety testing submission is the user manual. You can say what u like in there to make it pass. So if you wanted it on a plug with a 250mA fuse to pass a certain reg then just put it in the manual, it doesnt matter if you cant buy it.

I wouldn't be happy with that on any of my stuff but many people are...

 

[MattChan]

Have a google for:

iec 60335 test report

For an idea of the safety tests applied to a household product. Then somewhere in there will be a installation or over voltage category.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have read a few posts about the supply to bathroom fans needing to be fused down to 3A

Do any of them say that that is anything other than complete b****cks?[/QUOTE]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

DetlefSchmitz it doesnt really work like that.

What doesn't?

The irrefutable fact that in the rest of Europe the only way to have a Cat II appliance is if you have a fuse as part of it?

Some designers generally dont consider the end application or if it requires a price bump on the product wont be allowed to consider it.

So they design products which cannot legally be sold?

Part of the safety testing submission is the user manual. You can say what u like in there to make it pass. So if you wanted it on a plug with a 250mA fuse to pass a certain reg then just put it in the manual, it doesnt matter if you cant buy it.

I think you'll find that it matters very much from a consumer protection POV. You don't need to be a legal expert to understand that if a product cannot be used then it is not fit for purpose and therefore may not be sold.

 

[EFLImpudence]

So if you wanted it on a plug with a 250mA fuse to pass a certain reg then just put it in the manual, it doesnt matter if you cant buy it.

No one in Europe, The US or most of the world would buy one then, would they?

If your product requires a 250mA fuse then it should/must be fitted in the product as indeed they are.