Insulated plasterboard with ip65 spots. 2 questions

[2020c]

I had my ceiling rose to changed to 4 x 10.5w Monza spot lights. Ip65 in an ensuite. I am painting the ceiling and was to put the spots into the holes myself. What I did notice was the spots where hot to touch and as I have insulation all around the spots, will this cause any negative effects to the spots for overheating. I remember seeing on the diagram it showed them installed into a normal plasterboarded ceiling and not an insulated. Maybe it's nothing to worry about but it is concerning.

Another thing I did notice was draughts around the spots. Before they get installed back into the cut out holes after the ceiling painted, would fire rated silicone be helpful around the underside of them to stick back to the ceiling to stop more draughts/heat lose.

 

[motorbiking]

4 x 10.5w is massively overspec for a bathroom (roughly = to 270w standard light bulbs). You need to check the data sheet for the install, but I suspect they require a gap between the unit and the insulation. You could swap them for 4w fire rated lights with a built in hood or scrape back the insulation to provide a gap.

 

[EFLImpudence]

That's not what fire-rated means.

It just means they contain intumescent material which expands to fill any internal gaps in the event of a fire.

 

[Why Not Indeed]

And yes, seal around them properly especially if it's a bathroom, you don't want moist air escaping up into whatever that void is.

 

[ericmark]

That's not what fire-rated means.

That has raised questions as to the use of LED bulbs made of plastic, the fitting is fire rated with a glass bulb, not sure if that works if swapped for plastic?

Ip65

That again seems suspect, the bulb is not IP65 as it clearly has terminals which need to be kept dry, and "No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust-tight). A vacuum must be applied. Test duration of up to 8 hours based on airflow." and "Water projected by a nozzle (6.3 mm (0.25 in) against enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects." seems to be going OTT, in zones 1 and 2, IPX4 is required, "Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect, utilizing either: a) an oscillating fixture or b) A spray nozzle with no shield. Test a) is conducted for 10 minutes. b) is conducted (without shield) for 5 minutes minimum." but the zones stop at 2.25 meters.

Cooling is important, and in the main this means free air, these can clearly seal against ceiling and have free air around the bulb, as can this one even directly above the shower, but in the main a bathroom would have a lamp like this that gives a wide angle of light and is surface mounted, and is spray resistant, and does not effect the properties of the ceiling it is mounted on.

GX53 will allow renewable bulbs, and surface mount, there is simply no need to drill holes in the ceiling today, except for the wires. For a recessed GU10 lamp to work, the ceiling needs to be high, as with this kitchen so either well over the 2.25 meters of zone 1 and 2, or not suitable for GU10 recessed lighting.

Oh and the junction box with wiring cores showing is clearly not permitted.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

That has raised questions as to the use of LED bulbs made of plastic, the fitting is fire rated with a glass bulb, not sure if that works if swapped for plastic?

I don't think the bulb comes into it. The fire that triggers the intumescence is nothing to do with the bulb, but a house fire coming from below. (...if I understand correctly...)

 

[2020c]

That has raised questions as to the use of LED bulbs made of plastic, the fitting is fire rated with a glass bulb, not sure if that works if swapped for plastic?


That again seems suspect, the bulb is not IP65 as it clearly has terminals which need to be kept dry, and "No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust-tight). A vacuum must be applied. Test duration of up to 8 hours based on airflow." and "Water projected by a nozzle (6.3 mm (0.25 in) against enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effects." seems to be going OTT, in zones 1 and 2, IPX4 is required, "Water splashing against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect, utilizing either: a) an oscillating fixture or b) A spray nozzle with no shield. Test a) is conducted for 10 minutes. b) is conducted (without shield) for 5 minutes minimum." but the zones stop at 2.25 meters.

Cooling is important, and in the main this means free air, View attachment 291201these can clearly seal against ceiling and have free air around the bulb, as can this one View attachment 291202 even directly above the shower, but in the main a bathroom would have a lamp like this View attachment 291203 that gives a wide angle of light and is surface mounted, and is spray resistant, and does not effect the properties of the ceiling it is mounted on.

GX53 will allow renewable bulbs, and surface mount, there is simply no need to drill holes in the ceiling today, except for the wires. For a recessed GU10 lamp to work, the ceiling needs to be high, as with this kitchen View attachment 291205 so either well over the 2.25 meters of zone 1 and 2, or not suitable for GU10 recessed lighting.

Oh and the junction box with wiring cores showing is clearly not permitted.

What is the alternative to a coffin box thou. The cables are connected to the spots with clip on(like wago) rather than the screwin connectors.

I would have preferred a single bathroom light but the misses wanted spots

 

[ericmark]

Nothing wrong with spots, I have three in my bedroom, it is only the recessed lights which are a problem.

 

[2020c]

I don't think you can get at these bulbs.

 

[2020c]

Nothing wrong with spots, I have three in my bedroom, it is only the recessed lights which are a problem.

What do you mean a problem

 

[2020c]

4 x 10.5w is massively overspec for a bathroom (roughly = to 270w standard light bulbs). You need to check the data sheet for the install, but I suspect they require a gap between the unit and the insulation. You could swap them for 4w fire rated lights with a built in hood or scrape back the insulation to provide a gap.

 

[ericmark]

If you have a GU10L2 fitting then no problem, no one can fit a quartz lamp, and we know fitting is designed for LED, the same with integral lamps, if bought as LED they will always be LED, and the surface GX53 is big enough to cover holes so can't see any repair, and looks nearly the same as a recessed lamp, the data sheet shown leaves no room for question

my wife asks for all sorts of daft things, but I am man enough to say no, even if that means a quick exit.

 

[2020c]

If you have a GU10L2 fitting then no problem, no one can fit a quartz lamp, and we know fitting is designed for LED, the same with integral lamps, if bought as LED they will always be LED, and the surface GX53 is big enough to cover holes so can't see any repair, and looks nearly the same as a recessed lamp, the data sheet shown leaves no room for question View attachment 291226 my wife asks for all sorts of daft things, but I am man enough to say no, even if that means a quick exit.

I should have said no too haha. I thought they'd look good too which in away they do but one light would have been better.

What do you mean if I have a gu10l2 fitting then no problem.

I need to clarify this more. I don't have insulation above the light. There's just a void above it and a room above. The only insulation is what you see in the pic. It's on the sides of the hole. What my concern is with insulation being tight against the light, could it overheat in anyway?

There is one spot above the shower although the ceiling it's 2.5m high.


About the coffin box again, why is this not permitted. What other method would be better.

 

[motorbiking]

It would be worth contacting the manufacturer and asking what clearance would be needed. But personally I'd scrape back at least a 30mm clearance to allow for heat from the light. I'm not entirely sure why insulated plasterboard was used in a ceiling with a warm room above?

They are over power for the job, they do a 7w option too. But its too late now you have the holes. The 10.5w option is designed to be used with a dimmer. I have 4 x 4w in one of my bathrooms (8ft by 9ft) and its way over kill.

 

[2020c]

It would be worth contacting the manufacturer and asking what clearance would be needed. But personally I'd scrape back at least a 30mm clearance to allow for heat from the light. I'm not entirely sure why insulated plasterboard was used in a ceiling with a warm room above?

They are over power for the job, they do a 7w option too. But its too late now you have the holes. The 10.5w option is designed to be used with a dimmer. I have 4 x 4w in one of my bathrooms (8ft by 9ft) and its way over kill.

I might just scrape away some of the insulation at the side just to be sure.

Most houses I work on nowadays are all having insulation in all ceilings, downstairs and up. I get it for free so why not install it in my ceilings I say. I can feel a difference in every room I have done it in so far.