Interesting, plus a poll

[AndyPRK]

Just wondering what I had missed.

If people don't like what the person is trying to do they tend not to bother to provide the info.

 

[JohnW2]

I wonder if the 4 people who have said that real-life concerns are nothing to do with us actually realise that they are saying "yes - I would of course help a paedophile to spy on children using the bathroom because real-life concerns are nothing to do with us, and are off-topic".

I suspect that they have done their best with a very poorly-worded question. One simply cannot answer yes/no to a vague question which could relate to issues on which virtually everyone would agree (killing the neighbours cat, spying on children in a bathroom etc. - which hopefully the mods would remove, anyway) and issues (such as the morality of keeping pets) about which there will be considerable differences in opinion, with your position (at least in strength) quite probably in the minority. That's why I haven't voted - my answer would be "Yes or No, depending on what we're actually talking about".

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Just wondering what I had missed. If people don't like what the person is trying to do they tend not to bother to provide the info.

The great majority of people, yes. A few seem to feel an obligation to make their views (about the activity itself, and the person undertaking it) known.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I suspect that they have done their best with a very poorly-worded question.

It is not poorly worded.

It is deliberately without any qualification at all. If you answer "No" you are giving an unqualified "No", you are saying that the real-life implications and contexts of questions asked here should not be any of our concern, no matter what they are.

One simply cannot answer yes/no to a vague question

It's not vague - it is precise and unambiguous. Either you believe that the real-life implications and contexts of questions asked here should not be any of our concern, or you believe that they should. I'm sure that most of the time people will find nothing to object to, but how will they know unless they do think about the real-life implications and contexts every time?

As you say, there are some issues on which virtually everyone would agree, some about which there will be differences in opinion, and with the vast majority there will be no "issues".

That's why I haven't voted - my answer would be "Yes or No, depending on what we're actually talking about".

How would you ever know "what we're actually talking about" if you never think about what the real-life implications and contexts of questions asked here are, or might be?

Look again at the "Yes" answer:

Yes, because there comes a point where what someone wants to do deserves more than a simple "how to"


5 people have said that there does not come such a point.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

if he made it clear that it was for an anti-social activity then the simple answer is to not reply at all and report it as un-acceptable content to the admin / mods.

Same with any other question where the intent is not in the public good.

That seems to me that you do agree that the real-life implications and contexts of questions asked here should be of our concern.

Where the line should be drawn in deciding if the real-life issues should be addressed or not, and how, is a separate debate - the point is should there be a line, should there come a point where what someone wants to do deserves more than a simple "how to", or are no real-life implications anything to do with us?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If people don't like what the person is trying to do they tend not to bother to provide the info.

No matter what?

You would never challenge someone, never report the post?

Are you like that in real life?

 

[JohnW2]

It is not poorly worded. It is deliberately without any qualification at all. If you answer "No" you are giving an unqualified "No", you are saying that the real-life implications and contexts of questions asked here should not be any of our concern, no matter what they are.

OK, in that case you are effectively (you say that your lack of qualification was "deliberate") trying to 'trap' people into giving a blanket 'No' answer (because that would be their answer in relation to killing neighbours cats or spying on children in bathrooms), even thought they might well give a 'Yes' answer in relation to other issues (e.g. the morality of keeping 'pets').

As I keep saying, the reason I have not voted is that my answer could be Yes or No, depending on context, so that no blanket response would properly or fairly reflect my personal viewpoint.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AndyPRK]

If people don't like what the person is trying to do they tend not to bother to provide the info.

No matter what?

You would never challenge someone, never report the post?

Are you like that in real life?

A little like that in real life,yes.
I would obviously report serious crime. Children/pet cruelty

However when faced with a stolen car forsale I didn't report it to eBay. I guess I didn't want any come back and thought it unlikley eBay would do anything.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK, in that case you are effectively (you say that your lack of qualification was "deliberate") trying to 'trap' people into giving a blanket 'No' answer (because that would be their answer in relation to killing neighbours cats or spying on children in bathrooms), even thought they might well give a 'Yes' answer in relation to other issues (e.g. the morality of keeping 'pets').

I wasn't trying to trap people into anything.

The poll is worded to avoid "it depends", because it does not.

Either there comes a point where what someone wants to do deserves more than a simple "how to", or there does not - that fundamental principle cannot depend on anything. Opinions on where that point is will differ, as will what the response should be, but how can anybody decide if the real-life implications of what is being asked about have reached wherever they have placed their point unless they actually think about what the real-life implications are?

As I keep saying, the reason I have not voted is that my answer could be Yes or No, depending on context, so that no blanket response would properly or fairly reflect my personal viewpoint.

Is your personal viewpoint that yes, there comes a point where what someone wants to do deserves more than a simple "how to, or no, there does not come such a point?

Does there come a point where water in a bath is too hot to be comfortable? Were the question "is this water too hot....?" you could, probably should, answer "it depends", but to the question "Does there come a point where water in a bath is too hot to be comfortable?"?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A little like that in real life,yes.
I would obviously report serious crime. Children/pet cruelty

So in real life what others do is a concern of yours. In real life there comes a point where you do not ignore what they are doing.

 

[JohnW2]

Either there comes a point where what someone wants to do deserves more than a simple "how to", or there does not - that fundamental principle cannot depend on anything.

That's true, and had your "there comes a point" not been preceded by "Yes, because ...", then your question would have been straightforward.

So, if your question had asked "Does there come a point where ..." (Yes or No?) then I imagine that virtually everyone would have answered 'Yes'. However, I don't think that would help in relation to your personal reason for asking these questions. As you imply, the issue is 'where does that point come'. In the extreme cases such as you have mentioned, in relation to which virtually everyone would agree that the situation was not acceptable (i.e. 'beyond that point') (and assuming that mods did not remove the post/thread), then it is fair enough to comment on those issues, even in an 'Electrics' forum. However, if the issue in question is 'not acceptable' ('beyond the point') only to a minority (no matter how strongly held their views) then, IMO, it is not appropriate to express that view in an 'Electrics' forum - there are plenty of appropriate platforms for campaigning about such things. Some others will obviously disagree with me about that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

Some people might say that a DIY forum is not the place for accusations of immorality based on political opinions on the redistribution of wealth, for example by subsidies and energy pricing policy, and whether incentives are, in the opinion of one person or another, virtuous.

 

[JohnW2]

Some people might say that a DIY forum is not the place for accusations of immorality based on politican opinions on the redistribution of wealth, for example by subsidies and energy pricing policy, and whether incentives are, in the opinion of one person or another, virtuous.

Some people would indeed say that, and I would have a lot of sympathy with them. I also fully respect the right of people to have the sort of views you mention but, given that there are countless appropriate places where such views and opinions can be aired, discussed and debated, I personally do not think that a "DIY Electrics" forum is an appropriate place for such material/discussions.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I personally do not think that a "DIY Electrics" forum is an appropriate place for such material/discussions.

I agree, it is assumed that in this section of the forum it is to do with electrics.
As to killing cats, be it with electric or anything else the sysop should remove it. The correct procedure is to click on "report" and not even try to answer.

As to pin hole cameras these need a massive time to form an image and used in a toilet you would not even see anyone had visited it. However the procedure is the same, click on "report" and not even try to answer.

While in Hong Kong I was a member of HARTS (Hong Kong amateur radio transmitting society) they had a problem with unlicensed people using the repeater and so issued personal access codes to their members. We were all told any unlicensed person who came on we were to simply stop using the repeater. If we talked to the unlicensed person we lost our access. Once the unlicensed person found he could not talk to anyone he gave up. Seems all they wanted was to get a response. If no response then no fun for them. That's also the way on the forum. Some people like arguing and some posts are I am sure just to bait those willing to jump in with both feet.

So I repeat click on "report" and not even try to answer.

 

[JohnW2]

As to killing cats, be it with electric or anything else the sysop should remove it.

Of course, and I'm sure that the mods would remove it.

Don't forget that AFAIAA, no-one has ever come here asking how to kill cats with electricity - it was just a fictional invention ('example') of BAS's presumably for 'dramatic effect'. I'm even more sure that no-one has ever come here asking questions related to filming children in bathrooms - so, again, just a 'dramatic effect' thing.

This all started because of BAS's views on the keeping of domestic 'pets'. Whilst I can understand, and certainly respect, his passionate views on the topic, I do not think it appropriate for anyone to thrust those views forceably 'down the throat' of someone asking an electrical question in an electrics forum.

Kind Regards, John