Interserve seeking a bailout

[motorbiking]

I wonder how much evidence is needed before that attitude is finally shown up as being a total crock of s hit?

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmpubadm/748/748.pdf

You only ever here about the failures - its a £250bn a year industry and the vast majority work out just fine. When you sell risk that you don't understand, you over pay, when you outsource mess for less then you still get mess. Unfortunately, the public sector constantly fails to learn lessons, I've personally worked on deals which were 100M over price, due to excessive risk transfer to suppliers.

 

[ellal]

You only ever here about the failures

There's a good reason for that...

But maybe you could tell us of any public services once privatised that have been of benefit/cost effective to the taxpayer/consumer?

Unfortunately, the public sector constantly fails to learn lessons, I've personally worked on deals which were 100M over price, due to excessive risk transfer to suppliers.

There is very little left of a true public sector...

And any dodgy deals done with 'suppliers' are actually imposed because of the failed political ideology of privatisation!

 

[motorbiking]

read the link.
If you were building a house would you : A build it yourself, B ask several builders to quote you for it?

 

[JohnD]

Or, if you built hundreds of houses every year, and employed architects, bricklayers, structural engineers, plumbers and roofers, would you start by making them all redundant, and then invite tenders from the construction companies your ex-employees now work for?

 

[ellal]

read the link.
If you were building a house would you : A build it yourself, B ask several builders to quote you for it?

As notchy would say, that's irrelevant...

If you legislate against the public sector being able to build houses, then private developers simply overcharge!

In the same way as private healthcare companies can claim back VAT but the NHS cannot!

So why no attempt to answer that simple question?

"maybe you could tell us of any public services once privatised that have been of benefit/cost effective to the taxpayer/consumer?"

 

[SirGalahad]

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmpubadm/748/748.pdf

You only ever here about the failures - its a £250bn a year industry and the vast majority work out just fine. When you sell risk that you don't understand, you over pay, when you outsource mess for less then you still get mess. Unfortunately, the public sector constantly fails to learn lessons, I've personally worked on deals which were 100M over price, due to excessive risk transfer to suppliers.

There is ample evidence of outsourcing going wrong - the problem with all outsourcing is - it ties your hands and reduces your inability to respond to changes and it doesn't factor in externalities.

Look at all the waste with the outsourcing of DWP claims - it creates perverse incentives.

 

[SirGalahad]

The final irony being a foreign state backed company delivering UK public services - now is that taking back control? Obviously that is a political question but it also has an economic impact if the profits flow abroad.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The final irony being a foreign state backed company delivering UK public services - now is that taking back control? Obviously that is a political question but it also has an economic impact if the profits flow abroad.

Foreign, state-owned water, electricity, etc utilities were amazed that we were stupid enough to sell ours off.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There are plenty of ways to trade safely with companies with poor financial stability.

Really?

Plenty of ways for small sub-contractors, individual tradesmen and small suppliers to safely supply them with goods, services and labour?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I wonder how much evidence is needed before that attitude is finally shown up as being a total crock of s hit?

MOD: I think you have had more than fair warning, you are banned from further replies in this thread.

 

[ellal]

Foreign, state-owned water, electricity, etc utilities were amazed that we were stupid enough to sell ours off.

Whilst as you say keeping theirs mainly in state ownership...

'Tis the reason the tories don't like the European 'social model'!

Even the IMF has said there has been no gain by privatisation in the UK

 

[motorbiking]

privatisation isn't outsourcing.. I'm fully against privatising any state monopoly or critical national infrastructure, it simply doesn't add any value to the consumer or tax payer. I cannot currently shop around for water suppliers, so there is no competition benefit for them to improve.

@ban-all-sheds - Yes - another thread?

 

[SirGalahad]

privatisation isn't outsourcing.. I'm fully against privatising any state monopoly or critical national infrastructure, it simply doesn't add any value to the consumer or tax payer. I cannot currently shop around for water suppliers, so there is no competition benefit for them to improve.

@ban-all-sheds - Yes - another thread?

Have you been following the amazing story about the chips that China placed on motherboards which were then used at key US corporations, military establishments and naval ships?

Outsourcing has its benefits but sometimes the market does not price value correctly or consider externalities. The rise of outsourcing had its inception in the business schools which promoted the idea of focusing on where you added value and over time ceding production and distribution to others but it has come at a cost. The work of Coase comes to mind and more recently Clayton Christensen.

Perhaps we may see a shift away from outsourcing. Have you dealt with Indian outsourcers?

 

[ellal]

privatisation isn't outsourcing..

Wrong end of the stick...

Outsourcing is privatisation!

I'm fully against privatising any state monopoly or critical national infrastructure, it simply doesn't add any value to the consumer or tax payer.

Precisely...

And yet it has happened.

Despite the lies of the tories, re-nationalisation is actually cost neutral given that the outlay is balanced by the return of national assets!

 

[JohnD]