Is a power flush essential when replacing a boiler?

[DeltaT2]

a filter is a must

No, filters are no a must, clean system water is a must!
A mains water flush will do the business 99% of the time, well, here in Scotland anyway.
I guess places with lime scale problems, which I know is a large part of England, the system water should not contain very much lime?

 

[namsag]

Any firm that says a power flush MUST be done on every boiler change and charge for it is taking money under fasle pretences and are using it to generate additional income out of the customers fear and naivety.

Just took out a family members boiler and rads that have been in since 82 and i know for a fact it has not been inhibited or maintained for at least 15 years . Rads where took out full and emptied in garden not a single bit of sludge or black at all in them or the pipes

 

[transam]

in an ideal world a squeaky clean system would be desirable , but in some case's this is not possible , old 1 pipe iron pipe ststems with school type column radiators ect !

IMO some boilers are more suscepital to dirt than others , eg a combi as opposed to a systems or heat only boiler , it has been said by many that wilo pumps are less dirt tolerant than grundfoss ? although as I understand it wilo are working on this (?) never fitted one but I would suggest that an Intergas or Atmos with no plate exc & a 22mm bore heat exc would fair well in a dirty system or less than clean system ? as opposed to some manu's boilers ??

 

[kevindgas]

as with most of the previous posts we only flush where necessary, most of the time we just do a cold and a hot flush with water, we always fit a TF1 filter and it is amazing how much they can collect even after a power flush on a dirty system.

 

[simond]

Any firm that says a power flush MUST be done on every boiler change and charge for it is taking money under fasle pretences and are using it to generate additional income out of the customers fear and naivety.

So, on that basis any firm that says that a Powerflush need not be done is scrupulously honest and doesn't make as much money?

Are you out of your mind? If you see a moody boiler install, and the customer is saying that their combi has been totally unreliable and needs replacing in 6 yrs, it is nearly always because of dirt; inadequate preparation.

I don't make more profit doing the Powerflushes; on the contrary, the job takes longer, is boring, and the cost is difficult to absorb.

It is the guys changing boilers in 6 hours that are making the big money. They are the ones misleading the customers. It is their boilers that will be going t*ts up in a few years.

I get very long warranties out of our suppliers; well in excess of 5 years in some cases. If my chosen manufacturers start getting sludge related call outs within the warranty period, I will lose access to further extended warranties and my customers will be inconvenienced.

Luckily, I don't get my business priniciples from those fitters on DIYnot who are simply too mean to buy the right equipment.

If you are going to take money off customers installing boilers, invest in the right gear rather than try to argue you don't need it.

 

[mehran]

do not go for the 'dirt tolerant' boiler, that's nonsense.

Its only nonsense if the boiler you make is not dirt tolerant I take it viessmann are intolerant to dirt

for too long manufactures hide be-hide the same old tired excuses to defend their fragile little flowers of a boiler.

power flushing is only a tool, you are not a cowboy if you dont have one(or do for that matter) provided you clean the system in other ways. I have a kamco powerflusher. have only ever used it on bigger systems and it does nothing on mirobore systems.

 

[namsag]

Simond.
Bit touchy whats up did i touch a nerve.
Good to know that you do a water test on every install and it fails and thus you are not selling your customers something the do not require.

And glad you informed me that cleaning a boiler out stops fans ,pcb`s ,gas valves etc etc to fail .

 

[DeltaT2]

Any firm that says a power flush MUST be done on every boiler change and charge for it is taking money under fasle pretences and are using it to generate additional income out of the customers fear and naivety.

So, on that basis any firm that says that a Powerflush need not be done is scrupulously honest and doesn't make as much money?

Are you out of your mind? If you see a moody boiler install, and the customer is saying that their combi has been totally unreliable and needs replacing in 6 yrs, it is nearly always because of dirt; inadequate preparation.

I don't make more profit doing the Powerflushes; on the contrary, the job takes longer, is boring, and the cost is difficult to absorb.

It is the guys changing boilers in 6 hours that are making the big money. They are the ones misleading the customers. It is their boilers that will be going t*ts up in a few years.

I get very long warranties out of our suppliers; well in excess of 5 years in some cases. If my chosen manufacturers start getting sludge related call outs within the warranty period, I will lose access to further extended warranties and my customers will be inconvenienced.

Luckily, I don't get my business priniciples from those fitters on DIYnot who are simply too mean to buy the right equipment.

If you are going to take money off customers installing boilers, invest in the right gear rather than try to argue you don't need it.

I think most people are saying Simon; the system should be clean by what ever means it is done. Of course if you do a full power flush on every system that takes time, and makes you more expensive.

 

[Happyplumber]

I am taking out a Vaillant Ecomax boiler,it is only 4 years old and has had 2 divertor valves ,1 new pump and countless break downs

The secondary heat exchanger has been changed and cleaned out twice,the customer was at his wits end
when we met Shoreheat looking for spares

The installer is lets just say known in the trade so i knew what to expect,a completely filthy system full of magnetite and sludge .After checking the quality of the water and it was no surprise

We Install Vaillant boilers as preferred choice and offer free 5 year warranty for this we tend to Powerflush the system meticoulsly,my Nortstrom machine along with built in heater and Kamco Magnetic filter will clean out any system and I tend to make use of it on most installs

I am not trying to preach to anyone the merits of powerflushing or how you obtain a clean system,but as written in all warranties the system has to be clean especially with modern condensing boilers and their very narrow water ways

The last thing one needs is for any warranty claim to refused because the system wasn't cleaned out properly

 

[kevindgas]

do not go for the 'dirt tolerant' boiler, that's nonsense.

Its only nonsense if the boiler you make is not dirt tolerant I take it viessmann are intolerant to dirt

for too long manufactures hide be-hide the same old tired excuses to defend their fragile little flowers of a boiler.

power flushing is only a tool, you are not a cowboy if you dont have one(or do for that matter) provided you clean the system in other ways. I have a kamco powerflusher. have only ever used it on bigger systems and it does nothing on mirobore systems.

well said but its not just v's that are dirt intolerant glowworm flexicoms are another, just had to flush a heat exchanger on one we fitted 8 months ago! despite a power flush at the time (been back to do some alterations recently and the downstairs is microbore 8mm pipes which we didn't know at the time as its under the floor only)

 

[Heat4input]

a filter is a must on a combi

 

[vulcancontinental]

Some manufacturers ask for a clean system, some that the system be cleaned to the British Standard which suggests powerflushing, gravity flushing with chemical or mains flushing. As long as the solids in the system are within 10% of a sample taken from your incoming mains water supply you're OK.

PERSONALLY I have in the past cleaned with gravity after leaving a chemical in for a couple of weeks and it can work but it's a waste of time if you're draining through a 1/4" drain off cock; you need a full bore valve or cut a pipe below the ground floor floorboards if you can.

If you're that worried just say to the installer you've got access to a turbidity meter and will check when he's finished but will not pay him until the system water is within 10% of the mains water, that'll concentrate his mind.

Follow the manufacturers instructions.

If you have microbore you can't flush it; ask the powerflushing machine manufacturers.

Mains flushing is OK if you take each rad off and connect it to the mains then vibrate it while running water through it.