Is buteline really that bad?!

[Yorkshirebloke]

Hi all,
I'd pretty much decided on using buteline for a complete central heating overhaul. Then last night I came across quite a few threads about it leakingbetc etc, but i couldn't really decide if it was installation error, or that the product is actually crap. Has anyone actually used the stuff or been to sort out a leaking buteline install?
It seemed perfect

Next, if buteline is ****e..... what should I use?
I'm leaning towards copper again.

Is the 50m rolls of copper alright or is it a waste of money?
Cheers as always,
Alex

 

[John D v2.0]

I heard it's a slightly different size so you need a conversion fitting onto any 15mm accessories. Also the tool is hard to get into all the gaps you need.
I think a member on here tried doing a big new build install with it and in the end decided all the favourable reviews online must have been paid ones as there are too many obvious draw backs.

To be honest i started doing things in copper as i trusted it most for our refurbishment but pretty soon i switched to speed fit due to the lack of joints, simplicity, and ease of dismantling. I don't use compression joints on plastic pipe any more either.
A few tight corners or places i need specific fittings i use soldered copper, and you can use it on tails to improve the look. Same goes for close to the boiler if you're worried about overheat.
Cost would be similar either way, the speed fit joints are expensive but you don't need as many. You don't need many tools either.

 

[Yorkshirebloke]

Aye I read that thread, I believe it was Bodd that used it.
Getting the tool into spots doesn't really fuss me, I'll be cutting large sections of floor out anyway, and I've spent years doing things in 12v behind dashboards, now that really is tight, especially for someone a bit portly......
The reviews seem even more mixed than a brexit discussion. Some reviews suggest it's absolutely brilliant, other reviews suggest it's the work of the devil. I know that installation could be half of the reasons why some slate it, but I kind of can't/don't want to risk throwing good money at it to find it's going to be a complete tw4t 6 months down the line.

I think I might just have to plump for copper. It's a bit more work and I'll have to be certain I've soldered the joints properly, but I guess it's about as permanent then as anything can be in a central heating system.
Have you ever used the rolls of 15mm copper before John? Any good? It's clearly got to be more flexible than straight pipe, which I guess either means it's then a copper alloy, or thinner sidewall. Not sure if that means not as good, or in over thinking it.

Might do a spot of reading on PEX piping before ruling plastic out altogether....

Alex

 

[John D v2.0]

Some reviews suggest it's absolutely brilliant,

The sponsored ones

other reviews suggest it's the work of the devil.

The ones from people used to traditional methods

Re the copper rolls I've not used them, just used the straight 3m lengths most of the time. I even used a 1m length from wilco one time, cheap shop but it worked! I never bought a bending tool but it's extremely hard to bend copper without running it unless you have the tools

 

[Yorkshirebloke]

Aye I've got a bender. He's a good mate though. Harmless enough

There was enough reviews that not all of em could be sponsored, but like anything there's good and bad points. Shame, the idea of being able to run long lengths of it was bloody appealing.

 

[Hot&Cold]

Nothing wrong with Uk buteline,well not until a numpty installer gets their hands on it

 

[Yorkshirebloke]

You've used it then? Obviously thought it was ok?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Only ever rip the leaking schit out.

 

[Yorkshirebloke]

Hahaha. You'll get splinters in your ass sitting on that fence any longer Dan

Doing a bit more reading last night and it appears that I can't use plastic for the hot water side anyway, as I would like a secondary return. Although i found a really interesting post basically saying that hep is used all over the world for secondary returns, but the British standards are slightly different and as such hep etc doesn't pass.
So copper it'll have to be for the potable water.

 

[SandyLyon]

Hahaha. You'll get splinters in your ass sitting on that fence any longer Dan

Doing a bit more reading last night and it appears that I can't use plastic for the hot water side anyway, as I would like a secondary return. Although i found a really interesting post basically saying that hep is used all over the world for secondary returns, but the British standards are slightly different and as such hep etc doesn't pass.
So copper it'll have to be for the potable water.

Polybutylene pipe should not be used for secondary hot water circulation, although some plastics can be used such as a Multilayer Composite Pipe (typically PEXc inner, Aluminium barrier and a HDPE outer) Wavin Tigris K1, Uponor etc.
It generally comes in 16mm, 20mm, 25mm sizes as opposed to the standard 15mm, 22mm etc so you would need transition fittings

 

[Yorkshirebloke]

Yeah I'd found the PB pipe could be used, but it appears nor many people had many nice things to say about it.
I know a lot of people think hep is good stuff, so I was looking at using that, but it can't be used in this country (it seems only because British standards are a bit maybe over the top here than anywhere else in europe) so it's back to copper from what I can see.
I can still run the central heating in hep, but I'm wondering if having done all the potable water in copper, wether to just carry on and don the whole house in copper.

 

[dilalio]

On pushfit (ie Hep) it’s not so much the pipe you have to worry about long term, but the fittings - and mainly the O rings... we’ve taken out plastic that hasn’t been in for long at all and you find a lot of orange residue (rust) in them. However, if you can keep most of the fittings in reasonably accessible places (clustered together), down to a minimum and you’re doing a complete install from scratch, so that all components are consistent (brand)... you’ll save yourself quite some time and you don’t have the problem of blaming a tradesmen who did it that way for you... helps you remain a little pragmatic if something does fail!

 

[GuessMan]

I have used it on a couple of installs and have had no problems. Every product is as good as the installer.

The installation MUST pressure tested to 6 Bar or twice the operating pressure.

 

[Yorkshirebloke]

This is the very problem...... there's quite a bit of conflicting information out there (as in if it's a good product or not)

 

[Yorkshirebloke]

On pushfit (ie Hep) it’s not so much the pipe you have to worry about long term, but the fittings - and mainly the O rings... we’ve taken out plastic that hasn’t been in for long at all and you find a lot of orange residue (rust) in them. However, if you can keep most of the fittings in reasonably accessible places (clustered together), down to a minimum and you’re doing a complete install from scratch, so that all components are consistent (brand)... you’ll save yourself quite some time and you don’t have the problem of blaming a tradesmen who did it that way for you... helps you remain a little pragmatic if something does fail!

That's exactly the thing, if I do use plastic it will likely have fewer joints in it as I can run it to exactly where it needs to be.
I am planning on routing all of the plumbing (and electrics) ideally through areas I can easily get to (landing upstairs for instance) so that I can then make large inspection hatches in the floor just in case further down the line I need to get at them, and I'll be trying to make any joints on that one place, where practical like.