is it two problems?

[kevplumb]

Hmmmm, strokey beardy moment - Shirley you're not saying that these equate to regulations themselves kev?!

no but they do tell you how to interpret them

and don't call me shirley

 

[Gasman1015]

Statutory Instruments 1998 No. 2451
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) regulations 1998 - continued

General interpretation and application
2. - (1) In these Regulations, unless the context otherwise requires -


"appropriate fitting" means a fitting which -

(a) has been designed for the purpose of effecting a gas tight seal in a pipe or other gasway;

(b) achieves that purpose when fitted; and

(c) is secure, so far as is reasonably practicable, against unauthorised opening or removal;



"distribution main" means any main through which a transporter is for the time being distributing gas and which is not being used only for the purpose of conveying gas in bulk;

"emergency control" means a valve for shutting off the supply of gas in an emergency, being a valve intended for use by a consumer of gas;

"flue" means a passage for conveying the products of combustion from a gas appliance to the external air and includes any part of the passage in a gas appliance duct which serves the purpose of a flue;

"gas" means any substance which is or (if it were in a gaseous state) would be gas within the meaning of the Gas Act 1986[2] except that it does not include gas consisting wholly or mainly of hydrogen when used in non-domestic premises;

"gas appliance" means an appliance designed for use by a consumer of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used but it does not include a portable or mobile appliance suppled with gas from a cylinder, or the cylinder, pipes and other fittings used for supplying gas to that appliance, save that, for the purposes of regulations 3, 35 and 36 of these Regulations, it does include a portable or mobile space heater supplied with gas from a cylinder, and the cylinder, pipes and other fittings used for supplying gas to that heater;

"gas fittings" means gas pipework, valves (other than emergency controls), regulators and meters, and fittings, apparatus and appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used (other than the purpose of an industrial process carried out on industrial premises),

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1998/98245102.htm#2

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Softus; I'm a brand new member on this forum and Radens comments just jumped out at me!

I have no intention of bringing up old comments to frustrate regular users, I apologise.

Softus's post sums it up

 

[Softus]

no but they do tell you how to interpret them

Er, I think I already knew how to interpret them

"gas fittings" means gas pipework, valves (other than emergency controls), regulators and meters, and fittings, apparatus and appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used (other than the purpose of an industrial process carried out on industrial premises)

...and judging by this interpretation I wasn't mistaken

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Raden; Forgive me if I'm not understanding you right but are you encouraging DIY gas work?

I don't particularly encourage anything, that's not to say thatI don't present people with the options

When I fitted my first boiler 18 years ago, I did the whole job from start to finish. The only joint (gas or water) which was subsequently found to be unsound, was one made by British Gas when they installed my cooker (while I was working away in Germany)

 

[KeithM]

O.K O.K!! I believe your views and intentions are in good faith raden.

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Not in good faith or anything

I try to give an unbiased opinion of what I think

I'm not a CORGI fitter

I have no special respect for CORGI fitters, and I appreciate that some people should not go near any appliance of any sort

Having said that, I realise that most people are not stupid and are quite capable of carrying out most tasks if pointed in the right direction

 

[Agile]

Raden, I do wish you would stop your denigrating use of the expression "CORGI fitter", the CORGI term is "CORGI Registered installer"

Its quite clear that you have little respect for anyone apart from yourself so unnecessary to even say that.

As for your photos:-

1. A CORGI Registered Installer is not allowed to use "reconditioned" parts because they are not manufacturer approved! If they failed and the house caught fire or blew up, do you really think that Adlink would pay? The Court ( with a capital C because it would be a Crown Court ) could be trying the installer for manslaughter, not Adlink, as it was the installer who fitted the non-approved part!

Baxi/Potterton make a lot of money from supplying these replacement parts over and over again! They have no incentive to improve the reliability with close tolerance plated through terminal holes and thicker tracks!

2. There is no obvious reason why the PCB should not work. It would need a minute with a hack saw though because the HT connector "cut" has been missed out! Why not discuss some of the design criteria?

Tony

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Raden, I do wish you would stop your denigrating use of the expression "CORGI fitter", the CORGI term is "CORGI Registered installer"

As for your photos:-

1. A CORGI Registered Installer is not allowed to use "reconditioned" parts because they are not manufacturer approved! If they failed and the house caught fire or blew up, do you really think that Adlink would pay? The Court ( with a capital C because it would be a County Court ) could be trying the installer for manslaughter, not Adlink, as it was the installer who fitted the non-approved part!

2. There is no obvious reason why the PCB should not work. It would need a minute with a hack saw though because the HT connector "cut" has been missed out!

Tony

Installer - fitter, no real difference - you''re not an engineer

the puma FSC can't possibly work, the middle connector is in the wrong holes - there is no chance of the gas valve working - THIS IS A NEW POTTERON PART (sorry for shouting)

You're wrong about the HT "connector" - it's obscured behind the HT transformer .. ah well

So - is a fitter allowed to replace a fuse on a pcb ?

is he allowed to bodge the soldering?

is it OK to replace the bearings in a fan ?

as for Adlink ...

 

[Agile]

I thought your "Head of Fans" used to work at Adlink???

 

[geoff@cetltd]

He did ...

and ?

He also used to be the local BG's most competent fitter

he's very good

 

[geoff@cetltd]

And note that I didn't bring up my profession until you pushed for it

 

[ChrisR]

...(pic) of a puma mod pcb which has a semi decent burn, which CORGIs are replacing on a regular basis and if they have any experience will know the probability of it ending up like the photo
- which wouldn't happen on a recon board

Are you saying the Corgi guy is at fault for replacing a Puma board with a new one? Are you suggesting that a corgi guy is incompetent if he fits a manufacturer's part which turns out to be faulty?

That burn definitely does happen on recon boards, which are often badly botched repairs, and always done by people who don't have the manufacturer's specs for testing the boards. We've all seen boards patched up with car body filler and wires soldered directly to component legs...
At least some of the same people also do not have enough electronics knowledge to work out how any board is supposed to work, so they just put a repaired board "on test". That means they test it works in a particular working situation, but have to guess what the board is supposed to do in fault conditions. More complex boards have totally anonymous complex components, of course.

I have one recon board where a safety circuit has been altered so it is less effective, presumably to make the board appear "more reliable".


It is easy to argue that any component on a tested appliance must only be replaced with the manufacturer's spare parts, be they fuses, or even screws. Otherwise the appliance isn't as the mfr intended it to be!

>>So - is a fitter allowed to replace a fuse on a pcb ?
He has to be Corgi regd, and also competent, which is a harder thing to assess. If he does it by bending the fuse carrier clips apart too far, he isn't competent..
He also has to do the commissioning tests from scratch, because something else on the board may be faulty. According to a recent corgi mag, he would also have to test all the safety systems- which is nonsense, since the mfr doesn't require that on installation.


>>is he allowed to bodge the soldering?
Certainly not. If the board's solder joints have failed, the design has, in some way, failed. (Not necessarily the case if a fuse has blown). What else might have failed? He is unable to test the board in accordance with....

>>is it OK to replace the bearings in a fan ?
No. Approved parts only.


You asked what is allowed and the above are my opinions on what the regs mean.
We all draw a line somewhere, but I have resoldered boards, repaired electronics, used non manufacturer-supplied parts, used different wall fixings and the like, using what one corgi guy I quizzed once, laughingly (I was laughing, he was serious) called, "engineerial" judgement.
If I replace a bearing a fan (which I have done) I'm taking a risk. It's a small one, but the bearing could, say, hypothetically, catch fire, and then I wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I was an electronics design engineer for a while. (BSc etc). Though that helps in understanding how a few things work, it more usefully gives awareness of some aspects which preclude diy repairs!

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Are you saying the Corgi guy is at fault for replacing a Puma board with a new one? Are you suggesting that a corgi guy is incompetent if he fits a manufacturer's part which turns out to be faulty?

No, I'm just wondering how a CORGI can be at peace with himself, knowing that ultimately this is the potential outcome

That burn definitely does happen on recon boards,

no it doesn't eejit - it happens because if potterton's poor quality flow soldering

any properly reconditioned board will have the connections resolderewd to overcome this (potential) problem

 

[ChrisR]

Oh dear - you are now becoming silly because you have an axe to grind, being a "repairer" of boiler circuit boards at CET Ltd.

No, I'm just wondering how a CORGI can be at peace with himself, knowing that ultimately this is the potential outcome

Is that a sensible comment? Potterton boilers aren't all great, all boilers break down - are you suggesting the installer should feel responsible?

That burn definitely does happen on recon boards,

no it doesn't eejit

You're calling me a liar. I have no axe to grind on this - unlike you.
Doesn't happen on recon boards? OH YES IT DOES INCLUDING YOURS. I should have collected them instead of putting them where they belong - in the bin.

- it happens because if potterton's poor quality flow soldering

Many a Corgi Engineer whom you despise could tell you that isn't the answer, because hand soldered ones fail too. Surely you could have worked that out?
Poor flow soldering quality control is only one of the reasons. You ought to know of several others.

any properly reconditioned board will have the connections resolderewd to overcome this (potential) problem

"Proper"? In whose opinion - oh yours.
How is anyone supposed to accept that you know what "proper" is?

Your response will probably be that you've been doing it for years and had no trouble - ie you've got away with it so far. A bit like crossing the road without looking.
Sooner or later, one of the boards you flog will kill someone. When that happens I expect you will go to jail.

The correct thing to do on finding a diy- repaired board in a boiler is to I'll turn it off and put a big At Risk notice on it.