Is old wiring always unsafe?

[Graemevw]

Were in the process of buying our first house. It needs alot of work, but i can handle most of it, apart from the electrics and the gas.

House is 60's build and hasnt been touched.
One owner from new, doesnt even look like any socket faces have ever been removed.

Stupidly i didnt look at the fuse box, but i assume its the origional.

Question is, as its untouched, will it all need re-doing? Ill get a professional opinion when i move in, just curious at the moment.

Does cable deteriate with age, even insude walls etc?

I guess it will need a new main board, and ill probably want more sockets on a dedicated spur (hi fi) but how likely is it to all need doing?

If i can afford it, ill re-wire anyway, but if i have to wait i wont have any additions done untill i can do it all.

Also, how much money could i expect to save if i do alot of the work myself? Are electricians ok with the owner running the cables, cutting in the sockets, doing the chasing for wires and doing all the making good, just leaving the electrician to do all the planning, materials purchasing and connecting up?
Obviously i wouldnt hide any of the work untill he's happy.

I know nothing about house electrics but am confident with mains voltage and the dangers as i build my own valve amplifiers.
The knowledge i do have has taught me enough to know i dont want to be messing with the houses wiring!

 

[RF Lighting]

If it is original wiring from the 60s, then the chances are it will almost certainly need rewiring.

You may find the wiring is in rubber cable which perishes badle with age, and if you so much as touch it the insulation often falls away completely leaving you with exposed live wires (not good)

If the wiring is in PVC, the lighting will most likely not have an earth to it, which means you can not have ANY metal swiches or light fittings. It also is not compliant with modern regs (and hasn't for some years now)

Yo may get away with not rewiring the sockets if the cable is PVC and in good condition, but it is very unlikely there will be anywhere near enough sockets, and in the positions you want them, and to be honest, it isn't all that much more work to rewire completely than it is to chop and change and extend the existing.

At least with new wiring you've got peace of mind that everything is safe, and there are no unknown hiddden joints etc.

As for doing the work yourself, personally I would be happy for you to chase the walls, lift floorboards, drill joists, make good etc, but I would want to run the cables and fit the back boxes.

I have tried before and I ended up spending more time taking the boxes out, chopping them in so they properly sit flush and level than it would have taken me to knock them out myself.

Running cables is not quite as easy as it looks to keep them in safe zones, in permitted routes through joists, keeping them straight and neat, and pulling multiple cables through the same hole without damaging (burning etc) the other cables.

 

[Graemevw]

Thanks.

Hopefully ill be able to do enough of the prep myself to make a simple re-wire affordable straight away.

Not bothered about anything fancy, just bare bones sockets and lights will do for now.

 

[sparkwright]

Earth wires in lighting circuits became compulsory in 1966.

Generally rubber cable wasn't used in the 60s, but you don't state the exact age of the house.

Wiring from the 60s is prone to a green slime which leaks out of the ends of the cable - but there's a good chance you don't have this.

It was common in the 60s to fit spur cables from the main socket wiring simply to save cable, which could make adding more sockets difficult.

If you need many extra sockets it may be as well to rewire the sockets.

The bedroom lights are probably positioned over the windows, so you may want to re-position them.

There may or may not be a 10 mm2 earth cable to gas/water etc.

If you are redecorating, a complete rewire may be best.

The switch drops should be in conduit, so replacing the cable would cause little damage.

If you are rewiring get a pro to do it - unless it's a decent professional job it's a waste of time doing it.

 

[Graemevw]

I dont know the exact age of the house yet, but its late 50's at the earliest, mid 60's by the latest.

Can you explain your last comment please?
'If you are rewiring get a pro to do it - unless it's a decent professional job it's a waste of time doing it.'

I would abviously be getting a proffesional to do this work for me, all i would want to do is the grunt work.
If he was happy for me to run the cables i'd be wanting him to buy (or at least exactly spec) the cable, tell me exactly where and how he wants it, and inspect before it was hidden.

Im unsure if your comment is in regards to the pro doing ALL the work, or if it is in reference to me running (but not connecting) cables.


One slight comment about fixing the socket boxes if i may.

I personaly would much rather fit these myself.
Im a tiler by trade, wonkey, proud and way too deep socket boxes are the norm from what ive seen fitted. I end up sorting out many of these as they make my life hard.

I'd want all socket boxes level and if there is more than one in a room i'd want them all at the same level. Would drive me nuts otherwise, especialy in a kitchen!

However, if the electrician isnt happy about me doing this i'll bow to his desires, i know what awkward customers are like so i dont want to be one

 

[Taylortwocities]

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Here's what I would do:

Allow for the price of a rewire in your purchase price (anything less will be a bonus!)

Have an electrician do a full inspection report - you'll then know what needs doing.

Appoint an electrician that you can have a good relationship with and is OK with you going the grunt - and why not?

Lastly. If a rewire is needed, do it before all the furniture gets moved in. It can more than double the time to rewire if there are wardrobes full of clothes, 4-poster beds and safes full of Krugerrands to shift (well, you are a tiler).

 

[Graemevw]

I wish i could do things in that order.

Unfortunately we have agree'd a price and have a set amount left (9k).

I need to build a 30m garage, build a kitchen, complete bathroom, complete re-decorate, maybe complete re-plaster, re-wire, investigate heating (new gas CH with old imersion heater) and see what that needs.

Oh, and an open fire and carpets.

I guess by now you realise i dont have anywhere near enough money right?

I wont see the house again untill we move in (its 180 miles away).

Once we have completed the sale we have to move in, with all our stuff, not loads luckily as this is our first house but my motorbike and tools will be in the kitchen untill the garage is built and my hi fi and record collection will take up alot of another room.

We'll pretty much be camping in the house while we renovate.

Madness? Probably, but i cant wait!!!

Priority list for me is,
Buy cooker, washing machine and fridge
Garage base
Drop front kerb
heating
electrics
bed
garage
plastering
decorating
kitchen
bathroom.

Its going to be awkward, and long term. I can rope in help from a few qualified trades though.
Hopefully someone i know will know a qualified sparks!

 

[sparkwright]

I dont know the exact age of the house yet, but its late 50's at the earliest, mid 60's by the latest.

Can you explain your last comment please?
'If you are rewiring get a pro to do it - unless it's a decent professional job it's a waste of time doing it.'

I would abviously be getting a proffesional to do this work for me, all i would want to do is the grunt work.
If he was happy for me to run the cables i'd be wanting him to buy (or at least exactly spec) the cable, tell me exactly where and how he wants it, and inspect before it was hidden.

Im unsure if your comment is in regards to the pro doing ALL the work, or if it is in reference to me running (but not connecting) cables.


One slight comment about fixing the socket boxes if i may.

I personaly would much rather fit these myself.
Im a tiler by trade, wonkey, proud and way too deep socket boxes are the norm from what ive seen fitted. I end up sorting out many of these as they make my life hard.

I'd want all socket boxes level and if there is more than one in a room i'd want them all at the same level. Would drive me nuts otherwise, especialy in a kitchen!

However, if the electrician isnt happy about me doing this i'll bow to his desires, i know what awkward customers are like so i dont want to be one

Sorry, didn't notice you were thinking about getting an electrician in to do the majority of the work.

My point is if someone installs/connects the wiring badly then you have a lousy job.

It does seem that you are keen to have a good job done though.

 

[Graemevw]

Very much so.

Im in a different trade, but am still in the building world as it were and hate substandard work.

As i say, this is our first house, we plan on staying there a long time and am looking forward to its renovation. I love a project, although my projects are usualy hifi, motorbikes or cars.

I want it done right.


Hopefully i can just get it re-wired straight away, but the 9k we have spare we also have to live on untill we find work

 

[17thman]

I suggest you go into this purchase with all the facts, get a periodic inspection report before you purchase and use it as a negotiating tool.

 

[Graemevw]

May be a good idea.

Still waiting for our survey results too, but that wont go inot any electrical details.

Not sure if there would be much more room for manouver either. We already knocked £11k of the £90k asking price.

All new to me this, the PIR, how much would this cost us and who would be doing it? Any qualified electrician, or specific electrical survey type fella?

Buying your first house is a steep learnign curve

 

[17thman]

normal three bed house, no remote buildings with power, between £180 and £250.

Its a buyers market. Your are in the driving seat. In my experience, a vendor issued with a copy of the periodic inspection report and its findings will more often than not allow something. You lender(if you are having a morgage) may retain some money from your advance on the advice of the surveyor. Talk to the estate agent nicely, they require a sale too and will try and find some common ground

 

[Graemevw]

I'd just been searching and came up with the same info you just gave me.

Ill phone some local friends and see if i can find a recomendation for an electrician.

We have no morgage.

She's already dropped the price, by more than she ever intended, due to the work it needs. Even if the electrics are totaly unfit adn she wont drop another penny, we'll still buy it, but its worth a go.

Ill be getting it done anyway, may as well do it before we buy.

Maybe ill wait untill after the survey, make sure its not falling down first.

Were paying 79 and she already turned down 75 from a previous couple, but even another £500 off would help.

Thanks for the help.

 

[big-all]

if your heart is set on the house go in light and suggest 250 if you expect it may cost £500
remember you may put them off is it worth it it you love the house

 

[bernardgreen]

Wiring doesn't have to be old to be unsafe.

Biggest problem with old wiring is there isn't enough of it, too few sockets is the usual "failing".

If you love the house and it ticks most of the boxes for your future life then go for it.

Re-wiring is an inconvenience while living in the house but if well planned is not as bad as it seems. By dividing the house into more zones than normal ( such as a ring final for each room ) allows the re-wiring to be carried out in stages. First and urgent zones are the kitchen and one (bed) room where you can camp out while sorting out the other rooms.