Is there a leak?

[wooffy]

Ok I'll set the scene so to speak. Do you all recall that noise the pipes make after the toilet has been flushed and is refilling the cistern. Well I get that all the time in my house.

I have no internal leaks to indicate that's where the problem lies. (It’s been a couple of months now and I'm sure I would have noticed an internal leak by now)

When I turn of the supply tap in the kitchen the noise stops.

Also I get better water pressure from the hot tap and that’s just gravity fed from upstairs.

I've no idea where the external stopcock is and am beginning to think the council or contractors have buried in under tarmac by mistake as all the neighbours ones are in front of their houses on the path. I even tried turning next doors stopcock off to see if we were on the same supply which it transpires we are not.

One of the neighbours has suggested that I might have a mains supply leak. There's been no pools of water in the garden but I don't suppose that would be a sure fire sign anyway.

Anyone got any suggestions or should I just ring home serv up and tell them to sort it seeing as I've taken out their insurance.

 

[JohnD]

how old is the house

the leak stops when you turn off a stop cock? then the leak is on the "house" side of that stopcock, not the "road" side of it.

Have you been up in the loft and looked at all your water tanks to see if any of them is filling. It might be you have a radiator pipe leaking under the floor.

Have you looked in all your WC cisterns to see if one is overfilling

Have you checked your boiler (if pressurised) has not got the filling loop attached

 

[wmshome]

Is this a noise that comes on when you flush the toilet or have run a tap?

Try replacing your ball valves...

 

[wooffy]

It's an ex council house built between the late 50s and late 60s
There are no leaks in the house as I've been all over it looking even to the point of ripping out box work round the supply pipes from kitchen where the internal stopcock is (the one that when I switch it off stops the noise) through to where it goes upstairs. No puddles or damp patches that I have found.

The central heating system has been drained down including venting the pressure from that big red cylinder jobby thats got whatever to do with the central heating and the supply isolated.
The hot water tank isolated
The toilet ball valve isn't dripping etc
The shower feed has been isolated
Washing machine feeds isolated
None of the taps drip
But it still persists

The sound is hard to describe but i'll have a go. It's like I suppose water running through a pipe under pressure and is the same volume both downstairs and upstairs when you are either in the kitchen, bathroom or imersion heater cupboard (infact anywhere there are water pipes). Also sounds slightly like the noise an old kettle makes as its heating the water or the same as a pan of water makes before it actually gets on the boil. The noise lessens when a tap is used as if the pressure is being allowed to relieve itself through a greater opening.

 

[wooffy]

Forgot to mention that next doors water pressure is a damn sight better than mine.

 

[JohnD]

if you felt like it, you could put a stopcock in the rising main, after the kitchen and before the bathroom. It the noise stops, that tells you the leak is upstairs.

But I am not a plumber so maybe that's not the best way to do it.

BTW is the bathroom basin cold tap on mains pressure, or off a tank?

there is also a trick you can do with a glass of water but I hope someone else can describe it better than me. You could try it at the sink tap and then at the bathroom tap.

If you post some photos of the tanks and pipes in your loft, airing cupboard, round the boiler, and your kitchen stop cock it might spark off some ideas.

 

[wooffy]

Will have to give that a go as it would make system maintenance and repair easy if there was an isolator upstairs I suppose.

I've just used my mechanics stethoscope on the pipes and with the water switched off at the internal stopcock the noise in the kitchen pipes is virtually nil but there is still some from before the stopcock.

 

[JohnD]

so does the noise, on the street side of the stopcock, reduce or not, when you turn it off

Is the supply pipe iron? Is the kitchen floor concrete?

 

[wooffy]

All cold feeds are direct mains fed. The hot water is fed from a tank in the attic which I have isolated.
The main in is 15mm before and after the stopcock where there is a T off to the kitchen sink, then it goes straight upstairs where there is a T off for the bathroom, one for the central heating red thingy and then one for the shower before it ends at the tank in the attic.

The only pic I've got at the mo is of the airing cupboard from when I first moved in (nothing has been changed though)

 

[wooffy]

Noise on street side of the stopcock is still there.
Floor is concrete and the pipe is copper.

 

[JohnD]

where does that braided hose go?

 

[JohnD]

When I turn of the supply tap in the kitchen the noise stops.

Noise on street side of the stopcock is still there.
Floor is concrete and the pipe is copper.

And does the noise, on the street side of the stopcock, reduce when you close the stopcock?

this is extremely important.

And is the pipe copper when it comes up through the floor?

What is the kitchen floor covered with?

Are all the downstairs floors concrete, or could you see the cold water pipe if you lifted a floorboard?

 

[wooffy]

Pipes is copper where it comes up from the floor to the stopcock. Stopcock is brass by the way.

All downstairs floors are concrete with about three layers of vinyl/vinyl tiles on top stuck down with glue (bloody lazy council sods!)

The noise on the street side of the stopcock is roughly the same volume but the tone does change a bit.

Am I thinking what you're thinking that copper and concrete don't mix very well?

 

[JohnD]

it is entirely possible that the pipe is leaking in the floor.

One common place for it to happen is at the elbow where the pipe turns up to come into the kitchen. I once had it happen in a house that was then about 50 years old.

If you drill a hole in the floor, or through the wall at ground level, you might find the concrete is wet (if there is a good DPM or bitumen or something it might not be detectable inside the room)

It could be leaking somewhere else, or even in the garden.

Water leaks tend to cause underground cavities, as they turn the soil into mud and wash it away (usually downwards)

I am just a householder, not a plumber.

Identifying whether the noise is upstream or downstream of your stopcock is vital to identifying where the leak is.

 

[wooffy]

Pic of stopcock in kitchen.