Is verbal planning permission legal?

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We live 'in the curtilage of 'a listed farmhouse courtyard development' building in the curtilage of North York Moors planning. Our new neighbour arrived saying he had permission for a number of things such as a new paint scheme, new doors, window, gas flu near roof ridge, garage doors and an external steps railing and promptly went ahead and did them upsetting the balance of our courtyard. He had 'proper' permission for the railings and garage doors. There was no written planning permission for the rest. As we had been quite rightly refused when we had applied verbally for many of the same changes, I phoned NYM and, amongst other things asked whether verbal planning permission existed and how could we discover the wording of the permission that we had never been asked our opinion about (unlike written permission) as it doesn't appear on their search engine, despite the applicant getting follow up mail. Also,despite a much vaunted 24 hour response to calls and 10 day for emails I have had noresponse whatsoever in 3 weeks and was told no, I could not call round and discuss it with the listed building person!

All this gives me the impression that someone in planning verbally boobed and now there's a desperate attempt at a cover up. An impression only but we are still none the wiser.

What exactly are the regulations concerning verbally applied for permission?

Thanks,
 
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It could well have been a misunderstanding, but I think permission has to be given in writing. But I had a verbal agreement from building control to change my windows to uPvc as part of the overal conversion, and that overrode the conservatoion officer.

Some here will disagree with me, but I have a bad habit of going to the next shark up the food chain, and querying them.
 
Permission comes on a bit of paper, signed by the head honcho to be valid.
 
Permission comes on a bit of paper, signed by the head honcho to be valid.

Very interesting but this 'verbal permission' is backed up by a bit of paper yet walks over the the democratic process by denying the surrounding owners the right to object. This immediately raises the possibility of a backhander which is not supposed to exist in our country. I should prefer to hear from a legal eagle if there is one on the forum?
 
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surely "verbal" is very hard to prove for any home owner?
Therefore relying on it and doing work risks being prosecuted ?
 
None of those on here I'm afraid Meditek, but Woodys damned knowledgable, so don't write him off yet. But you don't know if the official gave more permission than he should have, or if you're neighbour has taken poetic licence for the limited permission that he was allowed. You could put in a formal compaint to the planning departmen with your concerns, and then follow up with a solcitors letter. Is it just you and your neuighbour, or are there others there that would be happy to back you up.
 
surely "verbal" is very hard to prove for any home owner?
Therefore relying on it and doing work risks being prosecuted ?

As I indicated earlier, these 'verbal' arrangements are made via phone and the applicant then receives a letter giving the 'proof'. This whole verbal thing stinks and explains the plastic windows in the house across the road which remains invulnerable whereas an old lady further down the road had to sell up because she could not afford to replace her new plastics (conned by a window salesman) with wood when NYM was tipped off.
 
The precedent case is Regina v. West Oxfordshire District Council 1986.

It was held that the planning permission is the actual document (decision notice), and not the actual resolution or decision to grant permission.

IIRC, there was some sort of error between what was decided and what was put on the notice. The notice stood.
 
The precedent case is Regina v. West Oxfordshire District Council 1986.

It was held that the planning permission is the actual document (decision notice), and not the actual resolution or decision to grant permission.

IIRC, there was some sort of error between what was decided and what was put on the notice. The notice stood.

The major problem with 'verbal' planning is that the only person to see the document is the applicant. I have asked NYM for a copy of the documents but they refused! Life is too short to involve solicitors etc but I would very much like to know how to legally get these copies without formally complaining and setting off a chain reaction. We like some of his changes and simply want to know what he was granted so we can do them too after being told we could not.
 
I live in a listed cottage and anything I need to do to the external has to have Listed Building Consent in writing and after notices have been placed in the local paper and outside the cottage for passers by to read. Other people living in Listed buildings that I know have the same restrictions. Hence I would doubt your neighbour has got permission and might be trying it on hoping no one will mention it to English Heritage

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/

https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/hpg/uwandhc/offences/
 
The major problem with 'verbal' planning is that the only person to see the document is the applicant. I have asked NYM for a copy of the documents but they refused! Life is too short to involve solicitors etc but I would very much like to know how to legally get these copies without formally complaining and setting off a chain reaction. We like some of his changes and simply want to know what he was granted so we can do them too after being told we could not.

The decision notice is a public document. Viewable at the council office on their intranet or should be online. You should not have to do a FOI request, but could do.

But just because something is allowed on one property, does not mean that it will be or should be allowed on another.
 
I live in a listed cottage and anything I need to do to the external has to have Listed Building Consent

It *has* to have Planning permission. Further, if work involves removal or alteration of the original fabric (whether internally or externally), then it will require listed building consent.
 
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It *has* to have Planning permission. Further, if work involves removal or alteration of the original fabric (whether internally or externally), then it will require listed building consent.
As I indicated, our building inot itself listed but is in the curtilage of a grade 2 listed farmhouse - the farm buildings around the courtyard were turned into housing. The insides can be altered but the exteriors supposedly cannot. The 'original' external fabric in this case is what the builder got permission for back in 1992. NYM conservation area planning is also active.
 
Thank you all for your input. The best answer so far is from another forum :-
"
David, I would suspect what may have happened is that they may have sought pre planning application advice from the relevant council (assuming this is a service that they provide) hence the exchange of letters and not the granting of a formal planning permission.

Any development can be undertaken at the developers risk without relevant planning permissions and it is up to the LPA to decide what action to take in respect of any breach of planning control.

My advice would be to refer the matter to the local planning enforcement team who will investigate the matter in line with local policies and procedures"

Which is what NYM did but no one there took the time to explain this to me.

Please close this topic. I shall report back in the course of time!
 

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