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Isolator switch query

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I haven't got an electric shower but when I had one I never turned it off....( wasted loads of water) :LOL:
 
A household consists of one or more persons who live in the same dwelling. It may be of a single family or another type of person group



Blimey.
That's not much
Us
Son - brand new house all electric with 2 shower heaters.
Daughter - No longer has an electric shower heater but now has a booster pump which relies on pressure differential and does occasionally do an odd pump or two.
My sister - Fitted electric shower in ensuite ~30 years ago due to the length of DHW pipe run.
My sisters 1st son - Fitted electric shower in preference to booster pump during bathroom refit.
My sisters 2nd son - brand new house electric shower heater in ensuite which he prefers but she hates.
Mrs Sunrays brother - Legacy but says more effective than the gas combi. (didn't think to count him before)
 
Does that add up to 6 distinct families, or family-type groups? I count 3..

Us
Son
Daughter
=================
My sister
My sisters 1st son
My sisters 2nd son
=================
Mrs Sunrays brother
 
@Jurassicspark- I can see I'm going to have to recap, because you seem to have lost your own plot.
Really?
So - please take note of where we are, take note of the word I used in #7 - "need". Where we are is you saying that some showers need to be left on standby because they have a display.

Therefore everything after that is based on the suggestion that some showers need to be left on standby because they have a display.
I was trying to explain to people like you how some showers can be and are digital and have a display therefore an interface and some do consume a few watts. However, not for the purpose of what you said, and falsely claimed that I said that it displays "there is water coming out of it"
My reply to that had to deal with the problem that "running" or "not running" is not necessarily well defined for all of those appliances.

My boiler is powered up right now, but it's not burning any gas, it's not running any pumps, the CH is not heating and nobody is drawing hot water. But is it "running" because it is powered up and ready, on the receipt of triggers, to start heating water and turning on a pump? It's in one of its correct modes of operation, and in that mode it will sometimes activate the pump even if there's no call for heating, and it's constantly monitoring the pressure in the heating system, so it could be said to be running.
Do you turn that off and on? Do you have to get up and manually switch on the FCU every time someone uses the DHW?
A fridge when powered and switched on is running all the time, even if the compressor isn't actually compressing.
Depends on what you mean if its running. If it isn't compressing and the thermostat isn't engaged then is it really running? Or is it an example similar to above considering its a modern fridge?

What does "Wifi control or an alert if the fridge door is left open" have to do with my opinion on having a display which is still illuminated on an appliance which is no longer running?
Can't you clock it out?
No, but if you have an appliance where the only way to ensure it is no longer running is to cut the power to it, how else could you have a display which is still illuminated?
Yet should the power cease to flow, does the display remain a matter of interest to you? As for me, that’s not the case - I won’t, but you, well, that’s a question that stays..
Not necessarily - a piece of equipment switched off with its controls but still powered could still have an illuminated display. In fact I think my boiler, if I turn it off from the control panel but leave it powered, displays the CH pressure.
There you go. Can't a shower have a display that shows the temperature but it dims when not in use, or it shows the temperature as soon as its awake? And would it be suitable or not?

A feature like that may dim, fade, or go into low-power mode when not actively engaged, yet emerge with iimmediacy upon the system’s return to an awake state. And in this context the question then arises, is the mere presence of minimal electrical draw in standby quantified, however modestly in watts or does it, rather, underscore a trade-off between continuous readiness and perceived energy excess???
In what way are the electronics in a shower better left powered on?
What you consider the shower is not exactly what I’m actually referring to.

But you mentioned, and you did note it above, that you said the word need. My reply bacvk to you was "Some fancy, although rare, digital showers have a display and can use a few watts." That, however, does not mean I said it needs to be powered on. It does not in any formal or implied capacity, assert that such systems must remain powered on as a matter of operational necessity of the device.

Your TV on standby does consume a few watts, but does it need to be powered on? In much of the same way the mere fact that the digital shower may draw a small amount of power during standbyr mode is not an assertion of necessity, but its a reflection of how certain systems are architected for usability.

Anyone could ask does the soft glow of a screen that’s not being used prove it needs to be there or is it just about making things easier to use right away? And it looks like some people You in this case here do joke about if a shower has a screen they would stop watching TV and just stare at the temperature numbers but maybe that kind of joke even if they’re not serious shows how people are more interested in how something looks or feels to use than what it actually does. It’s funny, but also kind of true. I'm sorry, your joke did not bang. If you don't agree with it that it did not then take a look at the reactions to it. They are none.
 
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Does that add up to 6 distinct families, or family-type groups? I count 3..
I can see I'm going to have to recap, because again you seem to have lost the plot or are being deliberately obtuse.

Household 1: Us - Sunray and Mrs Sunray
Household 2: Son plus wife and 2 children.
Household 3: Daughter plus husband and 3 children.
=================
Household 4: My sister plus husband.
Household 5: My sisters 1st son plus wife and 2 children.
Household 6: My sisters 2nd son plus wife.
=================
Household 7: Mrs Sunrays brother. (I didn't count this household in my original statement of 6)

Is that really so difficult to comprehend?
 
I can see I'm going to have to recap, because again you seem to have lost the plot or are being deliberately obtuse.

Neither.

Shall we do a side-by-side comparison of what you wrote in the post I replied to, with what you've written now?

Us
Son
Daughter
My sister
My sisters 1st son
My sisters 2nd son
Mrs Sunrays brother
Us - Sunray and Mrs Sunray
Son plus wife and 2 children.
Daughter plus husband and 3 children.
My sister plus husband.
My sisters 1st son plus wife and 2 children.
My sisters 2nd son plus wife.
Mrs Sunrays brother.


Is that really so difficult to comprehend?

No, but what is difficult to comprehend on reading "us, son, daughter" is that you don't mean a couple and their 2 children living at home, you mean a couple and their 2 children who have each formed a family of their own. What is difficult to comprehend on reading "us, son, daughter" is that you don't mean 4 people, you mean 11.
 
OK so lets reassess the thread which you have obviousely not kept up with
We as a family of 6 households have always turned off and never found any disadvantage to doing so.
A household consists of one or more persons who live in the same dwelling. It may be of a single family or another type of person group

We as a family of 6 households have always turned off and never found any disadvantage to doing so.

Blimey.
So I listed the 6 relevant households and added a 7th
That's not much
Us
Son - brand new house all electric with 2 shower heaters.
Daughter - No longer has an electric shower heater but now has a booster pump which relies on pressure differential and does occasionally do an odd pump or two.
My sister - Fitted electric shower in ensuite ~30 years ago due to the length of DHW pipe run.
My sisters 1st son - Fitted electric shower in preference to booster pump during bathroom refit.
My sisters 2nd son - brand new house electric shower heater in ensuite which he prefers but she hates.
Mrs Sunrays brother - Legacy but says more effective than the gas combi. (didn't think to count him before)
with some brief detail which for some unknown reason you conveniently decided to edit (and I have deliberately copied and pasted this to avoid misquoting you):
Us
Son
Daughter
My sister
My sisters 1st son
My sisters 2nd son
Mrs Sunrays brother

Yes I really do think you have lost the plot.

If you are going to do a side by side comparison, at least do an honest one
 
Neither.

Shall we do a side-by-side comparison of what you wrote in the post I replied to, with what you've written now?

Us
Son
- brand new house all electric with 2 shower heaters.
Daughter - No longer has an electric shower heater but now has a booster pump which relies on pressure differential and does occasionally do an odd pump or two.
My sister - Fitted electric shower in ensuite ~30 years ago due to the length of DHW pipe run.
My sisters 1st son - Fitted electric shower in preference to booster pump during bathroom refit.
My sisters 2nd son - brand new house electric shower heater in ensuite which he prefers but she hates.
Mrs Sunrays brother - Legacy but says more effective than the gas combi. (didn't think to count him before)
Us - Sunray and Mrs Sunray
Son plus wife and 2 children.
Daughter plus husband and 3 children.
My sister plus husband.
My sisters 1st son plus wife and 2 children.
My sisters 2nd son plus wife.
Mrs Sunrays brother.




No, but what is difficult to comprehend on reading "us, son, daughter" is that you don't mean a couple and their 2 children living at home, you mean a couple and their 2 children who have each formed a family of their own. What is difficult to comprehend on reading "us, son, daughter" is that you don't mean 4 people, you mean 11.
There you go, I've corrected your mistake and marked it in red.
 

Yes, really, and I'll show you again what I wrote, and what you replied, and what your reply can only have meant (unless you didn't read my question properly, and answered one I hadn't written), and I'll use even bigger letters in the hope that you will at last see them.


However, new fancy showers do consume a few watts on standby.
WOE does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?
Some fancy, although rare, digital showers have a display and can use a few watts.

So that was your answer. The only semantically correct reading of that is that you said

"Some fancy, although rare, digital showers NEED to be on standby because they have a display and can use a few watts."


I was trying to explain to people like you how some showers can be and are digital and have a display therefore an interface and some do consume a few watts.

I'm not disputing that some do have those features. But pointing out that some do does not explain why a shower NEEDS to be "on standby".


Do you turn that off and on? Do you have to get up and manually switch on the FCU every time someone uses the DHW?

What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?


Depends on what you mean if its running. If it isn't compressing and the thermostat isn't engaged then is it really running? Or is it an example similar to above considering its a modern fridge?

What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

Yet should the power cease to flow, does the display remain a matter of interest to you?

No, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?


There you go. Can't a shower have a display that shows the temperature but it dims when not in use, or it shows the temperature as soon as its awake?

I'm sure it can, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?


A feature like that may dim, fade, or go into low-power mode when not actively engaged, yet emerge with iimmediacy upon the system’s return to an awake state.

Indeed it may, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?


And in this context the question then arises, is the mere presence of minimal electrical draw in standby quantified, however modestly in watts or does it, rather, underscore a trade-off between continuous readiness and perceived energy excess???

So you walk into the bathroom/shower room, and either just before you pass through the doorway or just after, depending on where the switch is, you turn it on.

Is the shower then ready for immediate use? Why does it NEED to be "on standby"?


What you consider the shower is not exactly what I’m actually referring to.

Well that sort of thing is going to make life tricky, when reading your posts, and trying to understand WT* you're on about.

You see when there's an exchange like this:

You do know that some electronics are best left plugged in, don't you?
This is a SHOWER. It's basically a very powerful electric kettle. The most ELECTRONICS it's going to have (need) are soft switches for on/off/temperature/flow-rate, thermostat, and flow-switch detection.

Why do THEY need to be permanently powered?
They don't have to be but they are better left powered on.
In what way are the electronics in a SHOWERbetter left powered on?

then for you to turn round and say that in everything you said about electronics in a SHOWERyou weren't actually referring to a shower is neither understandable nor helpful.


But you mentioned, and you did note it above, that you said the word need. My reply bacvk to you was "Some fancy, although rare, digital showers have a display and can use a few watts." That, however, does not mean I said it needs to be powered on. It does not in any formal or implied capacity, assert that such systems must remain powered on as a matter of operational necessity of the device.

Sorry, but this is English Comprehension 101. Questions asked are implicitly part of the answer.

Q: Why should I take an umbrella with me?
A: [You should take an umbrella with you] because rain is forecast.

Q: Why do we have speed limits?
A: [We have speed limits] to improve safety on the roads.

Q: Why does a shower need to be "on standby"?
A: Some fancy, although rare, digital showers [need to be on standby because they] have a display and can use a few watts.


Your TV on standby does consume a few watts, but does it need to be powered on? In much of the same way the mere fact that the digital shower may draw a small amount of power during standbyr mode is not an assertion of necessity, but its a reflection of how certain systems are architected for usability.

What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?


Anyone could ask does the soft glow of a screen that’s not being used prove it needs to be there or is it just about making things easier to use right away?

In what meaningful, significant way is a shower with such a screen, but which has an isolator needing to be turned on by the user on his way to the shower less easy to use right away than one which had its screen softly glowing but unseen by the user?


And it looks like some people You in this case here do joke about if a shower has a screen they would stop watching TV and just stare at the temperature numbers but maybe that kind of joke even if they’re not serious shows how people are more interested in how something looks or feels to use than what it actually does. It’s funny, but also kind of true. I'm sorry, your joke did not bang. If you don't agree with it that it did not then take a look at the reactions to it. They are none.

It was of course sarcasm, meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.

If nobody is using the shower, and nobody is staring at the display for entertainment, then WT* is the display for? What is the point of having it?

Why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?
 
Yes, really, and I'll show you again what I wrote, and what you replied, and what your reply can only have meant (unless you didn't read my question properly, and answered one I hadn't written), and I'll use even bigger letters in the hope that you will at last see them.






So that was your answer. The only semantically correct reading of that is that you said

"Some fancy, although rare, digital showers NEED to be on standby because they have a display and can use a few watts."




I'm not disputing that some do have those features. But pointing out that some do does not explain why a shower NEEDS to be "on standby".




What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?



No, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




I'm sure it can, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




Indeed it may, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




So you walk into the bathroom/shower room, and either just before you pass through the doorway or just after, depending on where the switch is, you turn it on.

Is the shower then ready for immediate use? Why does it NEED to be "on standby"?




Well that sort of thing is going to make life tricky, when reading your posts, and trying to understand WT* you're on about.

You see when there's an exchange like this:






then for you to turn round and say that in everything you said about electronics in a SHOWERyou weren't actually referring to a shower is neither understandable nor helpful.




Sorry, but this is English Comprehension 101. Questions asked are implicitly part of the answer.

Q: Why should I take an umbrella with me?
A: [You should take an umbrella with you] because rain is forecast.

Q: Why do we have speed limits?
A: [We have speed limits] to improve safety on the roads.

Q: Why does a shower need to be "on standby"?
A: Some fancy, although rare, digital showers [need to be on standby because they] have a display and can use a few watts.




What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




In what meaningful, significant way is a shower with such a screen, but which has an isolator needing to be turned on by the user on his way to the shower less easy to use right away than one which had its screen softly glowing but unseen by the user?




It was of course sarcasm, meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.

If nobody is using the shower, and nobody is staring at the display for entertainment, then WT* is the display for? What is the point of having it?

Why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?
Sorry mate but you need to get a life
 
My Ma had a Gainsborough 6kW fitted over the bath in 1982 when her 1956 house was rewired.

In 1986, the separate toilet and bathroom were rejigged into one room, the old airing cupboard and immersion removed and a shower cubicle installed. I put in a Triton. I think it was an 8.5. it was one of the biggest I could find. Back then.

But I did realise that showers were going to get bigger, so installed a 45A MCB to the metal clad Wylex 100A board and 10 Milli cable and installed an MK 45A DP switch outside. It was the 2 gang size, and had two screws for each terminal. Mum has faithfully switched it on and off at least once each day for over 39 years and it is still going strong.

The shower has been swapped for a Mira a couple of times, but still, 3 modern shower units in 39 years is pretty good going.

The reason she doesn't have a thermo mixer is that she still has warm air CH. A Johnson and Starley unit, along with a very small Chaffoteaux and Maury water heater for the bathroom and kitchen sinks. There is only one bathroom and she never uses the bath now. But the water heater is pretty pathetic and can't provide enough for a mixer shower. It takes about an hour to half fill the bath, by which time the water is cold.

But she doesn't want to shell out on a wet system and have all the disruption.

Even trying to persuade her to change the water heater isn't gaining any ground.
 

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