Isolator switch query

[securespark]

Yes, really, and I'll show you again what I wrote, and what you replied, and what your reply can only have meant (unless you didn't read my question properly, and answered one I hadn't written), and I'll use even bigger letters in the hope that you will at last see them.






So that was your answer. The only semantically correct reading of that is that you said

"Some fancy, although rare, digital showers NEED to be on standby because they have a display and can use a few watts."




I'm not disputing that some do have those features. But pointing out that some do does not explain why a shower NEEDS to be "on standby".




What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?



No, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




I'm sure it can, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




Indeed it may, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




So you walk into the bathroom/shower room, and either just before you pass through the doorway or just after, depending on where the switch is, you turn it on.

Is the shower then ready for immediate use? Why does it NEED to be "on standby"?




Well that sort of thing is going to make life tricky, when reading your posts, and trying to understand WT* you're on about.

You see when there's an exchange like this:






then for you to turn round and say that in everything you said about electronics in a SHOWERyou weren't actually referring to a shower is neither understandable nor helpful.




Sorry, but this is English Comprehension 101. Questions asked are implicitly part of the answer.

Q: Why should I take an umbrella with me?
A: [You should take an umbrella with you] because rain is forecast.

Q: Why do we have speed limits?
A: [We have speed limits] to improve safety on the roads.

Q: Why does a shower need to be "on standby"?
A: Some fancy, although rare, digital showers [need to be on standby because they] have a display and can use a few watts.




What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?




In what meaningful, significant way is a shower with such a screen, but which has an isolator needing to be turned on by the user on his way to the shower less easy to use right away than one which had its screen softly glowing but unseen by the user?




It was of course sarcasm, meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.

If nobody is using the shower, and nobody is staring at the display for entertainment, then WT* is the display for? What is the point of having it?

Why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

See your GP and ask for some Lisinopril.

Then song this song...

"Let it go, let it go ......"

 

[Jurassicspark]

Sorry mate but you need to get a life

He does have a life. The other day he was asking what junction box is suitable.

It’s just the plethora of spare time probably.

I just finished a stressful job and instead of being treated to a cake or anything else that gives a form of gratification; I saw the reply on my phone and it looks more longer than a supermarket shopping receipt.

I may or may not reply but the former will only be achieved when I’m bored like how I was above previously.

 

[morqthana]

Sorry mate but you need to get a life

I have one, thanks.

Part of it involves robustly pushing back at being gaslighted by people like Jurassicspark.

 

[morqthana]

See your GP and ask for some Lisinopril.

My blood pressure is OK, thanks.

 

[pete01]

I have one, thanks.

Oh, thats good.

 

[Jurassicspark]

Mum has faithfully switched it on and off at least once each day for over 39 years and it is still going strong.

I am genuinely not surprised by that. Pull cord switches are designed to be used.

If the switch wears out quickly, or fails then of course it is just crap and shouldn’t been fitted in the first place.

I do not want to come to a time where pull cord switches are tested - on and off - repeatedly till they fail and the results are posted in the description just for those cunning people who fear spending another £10 just because they think operating the switch regularly will make it fail in a considerably short amount of time.

 

[SUNRAY]

My Ma had a Gainsborough 6kW fitted over the bath in 1982 when her 1956 house was rewired.

In 1986, the separate toilet and bathroom were rejigged into one room, the old airing cupboard and immersion removed and a shower cubicle installed. I put in a Triton. I think it was an 8.5. it was one of the biggest I could find. Back then.

But I did realise that showers were going to get bigger, so installed a 45A MCB to the metal clad Wylex 100A board and 10 Milli cable and installed an MK 45A DP switch outside. It was the 2 gang size, and had two screws for each terminal. Mum has faithfully switched it on and off at least once each day for over 39 years and it is still going strong.

The shower has been swapped for a Mira a couple of times, but still, 3 modern shower units in 39 years is pretty good going.

The reason she doesn't have a thermo mixer is that she still has warm air CH. A Johnson and Starley unit, along with a very small Chaffoteaux and Maury water heater for the bathroom and kitchen sinks. There is only one bathroom and she never uses the bath now. But the water heater is pretty pathetic and can't provide enough for a mixer shower. It takes about an hour to half fill the bath, by which time the water is cold.

But she doesn't want to shell out on a wet system and have all the disruption.

Even trying to persuade her to change the water heater isn't gaining any ground.

That all seems to tally with our situation:
Dad fitted a 6KW Gainsborough about 5 years earlier (~77) and I'm sort of thinking that was state of the art at the time. The pressure relief valve (A rubber sleeve over a hole in the supply pipe) failed very quickly and the whole unit changed for a 7KW, I assume under warranty. It was still there for a few years after we started renting out ~1994.
In the meantime I fitted a shower in my house (~1984) a Triton 8.5KW seemed to be state of the art by then.

My default now is 10mm² unless there is a reason not to.

 

[morqthana]

I didn't reply to this at the time because I was occupied with the "why does a shower need to be on standby" issue with Jurassicspark.

There you go, I've corrected your mistake and marked it in red.

Yup.

I realise now I did seriously misread what you were telling us vis-a-vis households.

Sincere apologies for my mistake, and the posts it led to.

 

[Jurassicspark]

I didn't reply to this at the time because I was occupied with the "why does a shower need to be on standby" issue with Jurassicspark.

Change that was to I am.

So that was your answer. The only semantically correct reading of that is that you said

Only semantically correct in the case of your eyes or in the case of your thoughts. I freely mentioned that some shower have a display to ensure which type of shower I was talking about and for you to grasp on. So allow me to elaborate further and at arms length because it seems my original statement has not only been misunderstod by a certain person but also unfairly narrowed down and misrepresented in a way that completely distorts both the intention and the context in which it was made solely for the OP who asked whether if it was worthy of it having a shower isolator switch on regularly and switched off regularly and When I initially mentioned that some electric showers operate in a form of standby mode and draw a small amount of power even while not actively in use I wasn’t making a blanket statement that applies universally to every shower on the market or int he case of the shower that the OP has note how I included it inthe far bottom corner of my post Nor was I arguing that the presence of a digital display is the sole reason for that standby functionality. Rather I provided the example of a display as a practical and recognizable illustration something tangible you could mentally latch onto and whether if it was only targeted for you, that is a different story, to identify the type or category of electric showers I was referring to. It was never meant to serve as a definitive cause or mechanical necessity, but rather as a visible indicator of a broader design approachnamely, modern electronic integration, which increasingly characterizes many consumer appliances, how I mentioned like showers and fridges etc including showers. The reality is that contemporary electric showers can include a variety of electronically managed features not just displays, but this is just completely coming out of my mind right now, memory presets, flow control systems, temperature sensors, touch-sensitive interfaces, preheating circuits, and other forms of embedded control logic any of which may require a low but constant voltage to remain operational or at least in a "ready" state. These features are not merely decorative or luxurious to be classed as a TV programme for eg my combi boiler it has a temperature display and a bar reading and whenever the hot water is turned on it actually displays the bar reading and of course the bar reading is not correlated to the hot water citcuit but it does so they are functional components of the product that depend on persistent power availability to maintain user convenience, speed of activation, and system responsiveness so in the presence of a digital display is simply one among several such features that might coincide with standby power usage, not necessarily the reason for it in isolation. So, when you asked, "Why would a shower need to be on standby?" and I responded by mentioning the display, I was doing so to provide a lets say conceptual foothold an accessible example of the kind of shower that might consume standby power not to present an exhaustive list of all technical justifications. What seems to have happened unfortunately and unluckily to me and whoever reading this is that this illustrative example has been seized upon and turned into a sort of rhetorical questions couples in a trap , where you’ve repeatedly taken a supporting point and reframed it as if it were my primary claim.You’re treating the mention of the display as if I claimed it was the only factor in standby power usage which I didn’t because I did not say it soleley was because of the reason and in doing so, you’ve missed the larger, more nuanced point entirelythat some but not common electric showers can, and often do, draw standby power, and they do so for a range of legitimate reasons. To focus solely on whether a display is “necessary” is to ignore the broader ecosystem of electronics and smart components that may be working behind the scenes. If anything, the mention of the display was a simplification meant to make the point easier to grasp, not an invitation to reduce the entire argument to a single cause and effect scenario.

"Some fancy, although rare, digital showers NEED to be on standby because they have a display and can use a few watts."

You introduced the word need here.

But pointing out that some do does not explain why a shower NEEDS to be "on standby".

But it was you who introduced the word need.

What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

No, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

I'm sure it can, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

Indeed it may, but what does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

So you walk into the bathroom/shower room, and either just before you pass through the doorway or just after, depending on where the switch is, you turn it on.

Is the shower then ready for immediate use? Why does it NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

Well that sort of thing is going to make life tricky, when reading your posts, and trying to understand WT* you're on about.

You see when there's an exchange like this:

This post has been tangled and wrangled into a loophole of quotes which do not appear in my screen so I don't know what you're referring that to.

then for you to turn round and say that in everything you said about electronics in a SHOWERyou weren't actually referring to a shower is neither understandable nor helpful.

Did you not note I said I wasn't referring to the shower that you were thinking of? Something like that and again that is because due to repetitive wrangling my quote is not displaying as you have double quoted it.

What does that have to do with why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

In what meaningful, significant way is a shower with such a screen, but which has an isolator needing to be turned on by the user on his way to the shower less easy to use right away than one which had its screen softly glowing but unseen by the user?




It was of course sarcasm, meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.

If nobody is using the shower, and nobody is staring at the display for entertainment, then WT* is the display for? What is the point of having it?

So you contradicted yourself there and you said at first that it was for sarcastic purposes and now you proceed on giving it as an example.

Why does a shower NEED to be "on standby"?

But it was you who introduced the word need.

 

[morqthana]

Only semantically correct in the case of your eyes or in the case of your thoughts.

No, correct as in how the logic of questions and answers works.

Q: Why is the sky blue?
A: [The sky is blue] because the shorter blue wavelengths of sunlight are scattered more than other colors by the gases and particles in the Earth's atmosphere.

Q: What is the Great Wall Of China?
A: [The Great Wall Of China] is an ancient fortification built to protect Chinese states from invasions.

Q: Who is the Prime Minister of the UK?
A: [The Prime Minister of the UK] is Sir Keir Starmer.

Q: Where is the Angel of the North?
A: [The Angel of the North] is near Gateshead, Tyne and Wear.

That is how it works.

That is how the answer to a question links to the question.

So when I ask "why does a shower need to be on standby?" your answer is to that, and nothing but that, and it explains why a shower needs to be on standby. It's not a comment on some feature that some showers have, it is, and only is, an answer to the question.

So when I ask "why does a shower need to be on standby?", and you say "Some fancy, although rare, digital showers have a display and can use a few watts"

then the meaning of your answer is, and can ony be "Some fancy, although rare, digital showers [need to be on standby because they] have a display and can use a few watts"

And your statement really was an answer to that question, and nothing else, because it was in a post which contained nothing but a quote of that question and your answer:

I freely mentioned that some shower have a display to ensure which type of shower I was talking about and for you to grasp on. So allow me to elaborate further and at arms length because it seems my original statement has not only been misunderstod by a certain person but also unfairly narrowed down and misrepresented in a way that completely distorts both the intention and the context in which it was made solely for the OP who asked whether if it was worthy of it having a shower isolator switch on regularly and switched off regularly

I didn't misunderstand your original statement. You said

However, new fancy showers do consume a few watts on standby.

and I neither misunderstood it nor challenged its veracity. What I did was to assume it was 100% correct, and ask why a shower needs to be on standby.

and When I initially mentioned that some electric showers operate in a form of standby mode and draw a small amount of power even while not actively in use I wasn’t making a blanket statement that applies universally to every shower on the market or int he case of the shower that the OP has

I never thought you were, as I saw that your reply began "Some ... showers"

Just like you saw that my question had been "why does a shower ... ", not "why do showers ... ".

Nor was I arguing that the presence of a digital display is the sole reason for that standby functionality.

It was the sole reason you gave in answer to "why does a shower need to be on standby?".

Rather I provided the example of a display as a practical and recognizable illustration something tangible you could mentally latch onto and whether if it was only targeted for you, that is a different story, to identify the type or category of electric showers I was referring to. It was never meant to serve as a definitive cause or mechanical necessity,

Whether you meant it to, or not, that is undoubtedly what you wrote.

I think we can all see that you've been writing things you don't mean, and/or meaning things you don't write, but all you seem to want to do is to double down on that.

It was never meant to serve as a definitive cause or mechanical necessity,

I asked "why does a shower need to be on standby?" I could have written "What is the necessity for a shower to be on standby?" and it would have meant exactly the same thing.

So let's plug that version into the exchange

Q: What is the necessity for a shower to be on standby?
A: The necessity for a shower to be on standby is that some fancy, although rare, digital showers have a display and can use a few watts.

but rather as a visible indicator of a broader design approachnamely, modern electronic integration, which increasingly characterizes many consumer appliances, how I mentioned like showers and fridges etc including showers.

The topic was only about showers.

My question was only about showers.

Your answer was only about showers.

You tried to diversify to other appliances when pressed on the issue of showers. That didn't work the first time, and it isn't going to work this time.

The reality is that contemporary electric showers can include a variety of electronically managed features not just displays, but this is just completely coming out of my mind right now, memory presets,

My last electric shower remembered the temperature it had last been set at (electronically, not a mechanical selector), even though we used to turn the isolator switch off each time. Some sort of NVRAM would be my guess, but however it did it, we can discount that as a reason for needing to be kept on standby.

flow control systems, temperature sensors, touch-sensitive interfaces,

What flow control does a shower need to do when it's not being used?

What temperature sensing does a shower need to do when it's not being used?

What touch-sensitive interfaces does a shower need to have operational when there's nobody there trying to use the shower?

What touch-sensitive interfaces won't work properly immediately after power is applied to the shower?

Also, please try to remember that your answer said that the necessity for a shower to be maintained on standby was occasioned by having a display.

preheating circuits,

Please show me an electric shower which pre-heats the tiny amount of water sitting in the heater can, and explain what benefits there would be to that.

and other forms of embedded control logic any of which may require a low but constant voltage to remain operational or at least in a "ready" state.

What sort of shower controls would not become operational and ready the instant an isolator was closed and power was applied?

These features are not merely decorative or luxurious to be classed as a TV programme for eg my combi boiler it has a temperature display and a bar reading and whenever the hot water is turned on it actually displays the bar reading and of course the bar reading is not correlated to the hot water citcuit but it does

Remember what I said above? Please stick to showers. My question was "why does a shower need to be on standby?", not "why do some appliances need to be on standby?"

so they are functional components of the product that depend on persistent power availability to maintain user convenience, speed of activation, and system responsiveness

So, given the scenario where as I enter the room where the shower is, or otherwise approach the shower enclosure if there is one, I turn on the isolator. When I then get to within arms reach of the shower, what user convenience, speed of activation, or system responsiveness could conceivably be lacking because the shower had not been "in standby" before then?

so in the presence of a digital display is simply one among several such features that might coincide with standby power usage, not necessarily the reason for it in isolation.

It was the only reason you gave.

So, when you asked, "Why would a shower need to be on standby?" and I responded by mentioning the display, I was doing so to provide a lets say conceptual foothold an accessible example of the kind of shower that might consume standby power not to present an exhaustive list of all technical justifications.

Well you've now tried several more "technical justifications". We wait to see if you can make a case which stands up for any of them.

 

[morqthana]

What seems to have happened unfortunately and unluckily to me and whoever reading this is that this illustrative example has been seized upon and turned into a sort of rhetorical questions couples in a trap ,

No what seems to have happened here is that I have followed up on the answer you gave to a question I asked you.

where you’ve repeatedly taken a supporting point and reframed it as if it were my primary claim.

It was your only claim.

You’re treating the mention of the display as if I claimed it was the only factor in standby power usage which I didn’t

No, you did not say it was the only reason. But it was the only reason you gave. You didn't even say "one reason", or "amongst the reasons" without elaborating on them.

because I did not say it soleley was because of the reason and in doing so, you’ve missed the larger, more nuanced point entirelythat some but not common electric showers can, and often do, draw standby power, and they do so for a range of legitimate reasons.

Give some "legitimate reasons". Please don't repeat your earlier suggestions without answering the questions I raised regarding each one.

To focus solely on whether a display is “necessary” is to ignore the broader ecosystem of electronics and smart components that may be working behind the scenes.

What broader ecosystem of electronics and smart components might be working behind the scenes in a shower which is not being used?

If anything, the mention of the display was a simplification meant to make the point easier to grasp, not an invitation to reduce the entire argument to a single cause and effect scenario.

Having a display was the single reason you gave for why a shower would need to be kept on standby.

However, new fancy showers do consume a few watts on standby.

WOE does a shower need to be "on standby"?

Some fancy, although rare, digital showers have a display and can use a few watts.

You introduced the word need here.

I did.

It doesn't seem at all unreasonable, when told that some showers consume a few watts on standby, to ask why a shower should need to be on standby.

This post has been tangled and wrangled into a loophole of quotes which do not appear in my screen so I don't know what you're referring that to.

I've not misquoted you anywhere.

Did you not note I said I wasn't referring to the shower that you were thinking of?

I'm not thinking about a particular shower - I've just been asking about (any) showers which have to be kept on standby.

Something like that and again that is because due to repetitive wrangling my quote is not displaying as you have double quoted it.

What's not displaying as I have double quoted it?

Do you mean this

which reproduced this:

Or this

which reproduced this:

Or this

which reproduced this:

?

So you contradicted yourself there and you said at first that it was for sarcastic purposes and now you proceed on giving it as an example.

Oh dear. Not content with the hole you keep digging deeper and deeper, you now want to start a new one? What makes you think you can get away with this sort of thing?

This is what you quoted, to justify that comment:

In what meaningful, significant way is a shower with such a screen, but which has an isolator needing to be turned on by the user on his way to the shower less easy to use right away than one which had its screen softly glowing but unseen by the user?




It was of course sarcasm, meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.

If nobody is using the shower, and nobody is staring at the display for entertainment, then WT* is the display for? What is the point of having it?

Shall we try looking at it INCLUDING the bits you omitted?

Anyone could ask does the soft glow of a screen that’s not being used prove it needs to be there or is it just about making things easier to use right away?

In what meaningful, significant way is a shower with such a screen, but which has an isolator needing to be turned on by the user on his way to the shower less easy to use right away than one which had its screen softly glowing but unseen by the user?

And it looks like some people You in this case here do joke about if a shower has a screen they would stop watching TV and just stare at the temperature numbers but maybe that kind of joke even if they’re not serious shows how people are more interested in how something looks or feels to use than what it actually does. It’s funny, but also kind of true. I'm sorry, your joke did not bang. If you don't agree with it that it did not then take a look at the reactions to it. They are none.

It was of course sarcasm, meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.

If nobody is using the shower, and nobody is staring at the display for entertainment, then WT* is the display for? What is the point of having it?

And in case you find quotes within quotes hard to get your head round, here's a screenshot:

My comment about going to watch the shower display instead of TV was, as I said, sarcasm meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.


Nowhere have I contradicted myself.

Pack it in.

 

[SUNRAY]

?

 

[Jurassicspark]

I have one, thanks.

Part of it involves robustly pushing back at being gaslighted by people like Jurassicspark.

Sorry didnt read this quote so when you say, “Part of it involves robustly pushing back at being gaslighted by people like Jurassicspark,” what you’re inadvertently revealing is that whether consciously or not is that a notable, perhaps maybe a substantial, portion of your time, opportunity cost, energy, and attention is devoted precisely to this endeavor, engaging endlessly, persistently, and ceaselessly in argument with me online. It’s almost paradoxical in the way how that very phrase betrays the underlying truth that despite any claims or insinuations of possessing a life beyond this digital arena, a considerable “part of it” explicitly does not partake in anything resembling actual living and nd amusingly enough, this observation is not entirely novel if you think so it has been identified, recognized, and even articulated by another member previously above in this thread yet it merits reiteration here by framing this ongoing exchange, this relentless back-and forth, as a crusade against alleged gaslighting, you’re effectively admitting if only implicitly that your time, your mental bandwidth, and your very focus are substantially monopolized by this virtual battlefield. Thus, by your own admission, this “part of it” implies an investment, a dedication, a preoccupation so deep and so entrenched that it verges on an all-consuming fixation, which, when considered from any reasonable perspective, resembles very closely the absence of a life beyond this so when u say “part of it involves robustly pushing back at being gaslighted by peoplel like jurassicspark” what your kind of showing (whetherr u realise or not) is just how much of ur energy, ur focus and time goes straight into this exact thing ur pretending to be above. u act like ur resisting or “setting the record strait” but really ur like fully deep into this, over and over, with walls of text, coming back again and again like it’s some moral battle and not just a thread that could’ve ended 3 pages ago. and the funny part is u keep trying to make it sound like ur just reacting, like ur only here because u have to be, like ur being forced to reply, but not anybody is making you your here becuase you want to be because you cant not be like you cant actually walk away without trying to get the last word every time and it doesn’t even matter what the thing is like take that shower thing, as you know I literally just said some showers take a few watts on standby, and instead of just going “fair” or disagreeing you launched into some weird rant like “why would a shower even be on standby” and then when i said “some showers have displays” u acted like i was saying THATS THE ONLY REASON SHOWER NEED STANDBY like that was my whole point or something?? Itt’s sidenote, but u blew it up like it was a courtroom and you needed to prove a point in front of a jury.and you do this constantly. it’s not even about the topic, its about the pattern. every time you feel even slightly misread, or u don’t like the tone boom here comes another 4 paragraph reply explaining how ur not actually wrong how u were misinterpetted, how everyone else just “doesn’t get it”. and you always frame it like your just standing up to bad faith or whatever, but it’s not that. it’s just you refusing to ever be misunderstood without jumping in to explain yourself for the 9th time like it’s not a debate anymore, it’s a cycle your stuck in it. You say ur pushing back at being gaslit, but what your actually doing is feeding the exact same dynamic you hate, and honestly you look more invested in it than anyone like this thread, this back and forth, it’s become part of how you show up online and I’m not even the first person to notice, others have literally pointed it out too, and instead of just taking that in and chilling out u go harder, longer, more defensive like ur proving something you said “part of it” like this is just a small slice of what u do but no this is the thing. your not escaping it. your living in it. your not just replying, your orbiting the convo like you need it. Do you need it? Whether it's about a shower or gaslighting or whatever else, you always come back, always stretch the point, always try to correct the record, even when there's nothing really to correct. and the longer you keep doing that, the more obvious it is ur not pushing back at anything your just stuck in a loop you made urself and forgot how to leave.

 

[Jurassicspark]

No what seems to have happened here is that I have followed up on the answer you gave to a question I asked you.




It was your only claim.




No, you did not say it was the only reason. But it was the only reason you gave. You didn't even say "one reason", or "amongst the reasons" without elaborating on them.




Give some "legitimate reasons". Please don't repeat your earlier suggestions without answering the questions I raised regarding each one.




What broader ecosystem of electronics and smart components might be working behind the scenes in a shower which is not being used?




Having a display was the single reason you gave for why a shower would need to be kept on standby.








I did.

It doesn't seem at all unreasonable, when told that some showers consume a few watts on standby, to ask why a shower should need to be on standby.




I've not misquoted you anywhere.




I'm not thinking about a particular shower - I've just been asking about (any) showers which have to be kept on standby.




What's not displaying as I have double quoted it?

Do you mean this

View attachment 389825

which reproduced this:

View attachment 389826

Or this

View attachment 389827

which reproduced this:

View attachment 389828

Or this

View attachment 389829

which reproduced this:

View attachment 389830

?




Oh dear. Not content with the hole you keep digging deeper and deeper, you now want to start a new one? What makes you think you can get away with this sort of thing?

This is what you quoted, to justify that comment:



Shall we try looking at it INCLUDING the bits you omitted?



And in case you find quotes within quotes hard to get your head round, here's a screenshot:

View attachment 389831

My comment about going to watch the shower display instead of TV was, as I said, sarcasm meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.


Nowhere have I contradicted myself.

Pack it in.

No what seems to have happened here is that I have followed up on the answer you gave to a question I asked you.


It was your only claim.


No, you did not say it was the only reason. But it was the only reason you gave. You didn't even say "one reason", or "amongst the reasons" without elaborating on them.


But if you ask me any question and one question might be "What are you going to eat today" If i reply with, "I am going to eat noodles today" and later on you find out I actually ate chicken or whatever would you say I was lying even though I did not include "I am only eating noodles today" or would you not make assumptions, so why make assumptions here? So just because I said some showers have displays that use a few watts on standby doesn’t mean I was saying that’s the only reason showers need standby power. You’re twisting it way too much. When you mention one example, it doesn’t mean you’ve given the full list or that nothing else matters. Like, a TV has a standby mode because of the remote sensor, but it also has internal clocks and updates running, right? Same with showers maybe they have sensors maybe timers maybe even a smart connection or something else that needs power. You will know this and of course you gotta use your head and realize that giving one example isn’t the same as saying it’s the only possible reason. If I say “some cars use gas for the engine,” it doesn’t mean that’s the only thing powering the whole vehiclethere’s batteries, electronics, and so on. Or take it as a hybrid car where it can allow the battery to power the vehicle or petrol. So don’t act like I made some strict claim and you just caught me out. I was just pointing out one real reason, not trying to be a walking encyclopedia. So please replax and stop overthinking one line like it’s gospel or the whole argument. Think bigger than that and I am sure you are capable of doing so.


Give some "legitimate reasons". Please don't repeat your earlier suggestions without answering the questions I raised regarding each one.


What broader ecosystem of electronics and smart components might be working behind the scenes in a shower which is not being used?


Did I not already mention it above in a previous post but a showe can have digital displays showing temperature, timer, or settings, and of course you have grasped that above which need power even when idle and no matter if its not being used. The internals of the shower that manages functions like water temperature flow, and user presets stays powered to respond quickly when you turn it on. What about some showers have motion sensors or touch controls that detect when you’re nearby or interacting with the system which might reuqirestandby power. and if the shower is “smart,” it might have built in wifi or blue tooth waiting for commands from your phone or voice assistant. could this be plausbile? some units might allow you to program shower times or preheat water so they keep a clock or timer running similar to a central heating stat What about thos fancy remote controller so maybe a infrared or even better a RF receiver that listen for a signal from remote controls or wall panels require constant low power. Or how about in the future ovvverheat protection or leak detection sensors might be continuously active to prevent accidents....


Having a display was the single reason you gave for why a shower would need to be kept on standby.


I mentioned the display as a clear example of why some showers might need standby powerbut don’t act like that was the solereason I had in mind or the single reason that exists. I probably and I didhad a whole list of other reasons in my head or ready to bring up if needed things like sensors, control boards, remote receivers, smart connectivity, timers, or safety features that all quietly suck up power even when the shower isn’t actively running. Just because I gave one example doesn’t mean I was laying down a complete inventory of every single reason. It’s common to lead with the most obvious or easiest-to-understand point before diving deeper but it seems like you’re trying to trap me by oversimplifying or taking my comment way too literally if you really think about any modern electronic deviceit’s rarely just one single factor causing standby power usage. The display is just the tip of the iceberg.


What's not displaying as I have double quoted it?

 

[Jurassicspark]

true and standing my ground when something doesn’t make sense. If you see that as “digging holes,” then maybe you’re mistaking honest backandforth for something it’s not. This isn’t about trying to escape or hide anything it’s about engaging directly and openly. If you think I’m doing something wrong by speaking up or pushing back, then that’s on you to explain, not me to defend. So no, I’m not trying to get away with anything I’m here, facing the conversation head on and I’ll keep doing that as long as it’s needed.


This is what you quoted, to justify that comment:


I cant see the orginal quote as it has been double quotes and ill show you rpoof and its not me who is trying to swerve.


Shall we try looking at it INCLUDING the bits you omitted?


And in case you find quotes within quotes hard to get your head round, here's a screenshot:





My comment about going to watch the shower display instead of TV was, as I said, sarcasm meant to skewer the utter nonsense of having a shower display anything when it's not in use.


Nowhere have I contradicted myself.
Pack it in.


Okay at first you mentioned it was sarcasm. Okay, fine it may have been sarcasm as first in your point of perspective but later on why did you give it out as an example and not stay formal? If it was sarcasm that thought should have been disposed of. what’s going on here is a pretty common thing when someone uses sarcasm to make a point but then switches to a more serious tone without fully thinking through the logic at first you sarcasticaly joked about watching the shower display like it’s some kind of entertainment like “I’m going to watch TV... oh wait, no, I’m watching the shower display!” This was obviously an exaggeration meant to mock the idea that a shower would need to stay on standby just to power a display. Sarcasm like this is often used to make something sound silly or unnecessary. But then later, you seriously ask, “If nobody’s using the shower and nobody’s staring at the display for entertainment, then what’s the display actually for?” This is where the contradiction comes in. On one hand, you mock the display as if it’s just some pointless screen to stare at and on the other, you question why it would need to be powered if nobody is interacting with it. These two points don’t really line up. I;m sorry morqthana but some people may not see it as sarcasm. If the display was only meant to entertain or be looked at continuously, then sure, it wouldn’t make sense to keep it powered when not in use. But the truth is, shower displays aren’t designed for entertainment they’re there to show useful info like water temperature, timer settings, or control options. What this reveals is that your sarcastic comment was more of a rhetorical exaggeration trying to make the idea of standby power sound ridiculous. So basically, you mixed sarcasm and serious critique without connecting the dots.