Issues drilling into 1949 house plaster

[Codekid]

recently bought a house originally built in 1949. Its just brick and plaster walls, when I try to drill into the walls to put some plugs in and secure some safety gates, I end up with huge messy holes that will only go so deep (about 15 - 20mm).

I have tried 3 different types of drill, tried hammer functions etc, tried going in normal mode and then hammer once through the plaster but I cannot get anything to work for me. I have tried all sorts of drill pieces, cheap one, expensive ones, metal ones, concrete ones, I am out of ideas now.

I just want to put my kids safety gates on the stairs properly, please help!!!

Any advice is very welcome.

 

[cajar]

get an SDS drill.

 

[Codekid]

hi, thanks but I have tried an one of those types, that is why I am all out of ideas

 

[cajar]

Is it definitely on hammer action? Which drill is it your using and which type of bits

 

[Codekid]

i don't have the other drills here so can't say what model they were but the drill I have is dewalt and have tried it in both modes, and both modes seem to just crumble all the plaster so you end up with a huge whole.

used masonry, concrete and metal pieces on the walls, from the cheap ones in sets to paying £10 - 15 per drill piece.

I feel like rebuilding the house!

 

[cajar]

If you use an SDS drill with dewalt masonry sds bits, and have it on hammer action, with a little pressure on the drill it should go through the brick no problem and your plugs will grip that even if the plaster is crumbly.

Not sure what drill bit you bought for £15, as an SDS+ 5.5 bit is only about £2.

 

[Dave54]

As cajar says you need an sds drill and the correct bit. Getting one will save you loads of hassle in the future. No use using an sds bit with an ordinary hammer drill, or for that matter an ordinary masonry bit in the accessory chuck of an sds drill.
No use at all using bits designed for metal or wood. All you'll do is spoil the bit.
having said thatI had a house in the Midlands before sds was common, the bricks in that were virtually undrillable with a normal rotation only drill, but an ordinary hammer drill would do it with a good masonry bit. Slowly!

 

[Flyboytim]

I once had walls like this in a between-the-wars ex-council house - beneath a relatively tough plaster skim was a soft, pebbly sand render, and then clinker blocks, with a skin of bricks on the outside. As soon as the drill kicks out a 6-10 mm pebble, the hole doubles in size, the drill goes off centre, and either hits a tough piece of clinker, or pushes right through a very soft mortar bed. Then the hole would have to be enlarged and filled with a suitably tough filler before a reasonably precise hole dould be drilled.

The solution for me was usually to use an old rawl drill, a hand held percussion drill that you hit with a hammer, like a cold chisel or centre punch. At least it would make a precisely positioned hole, but too small for plastic wall plugs, so either I'd use hand-made plugs from waste timber, chopped out with a chisel or try to enlarge the hole carefully with a masonry bit in a power drill at minimum speed for larger plastic plugs.

I doubt these Rawldrills are made these days, but they may be found at car boot sales or in shops that sell old secondhand tools. Don't attempt to put the Rawldrills in a rotary drill though, the bits will simply bind and snap off in the hole.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Star drills? I haven't seen them since the 1970s!

 

[footprints]

An SDS drill on hammer should slaughter even concrete, err don't take this wrong but are you sure the drill is not on reverse?

 

[footprints]

I once had walls like this in a between-the-wars ex-council house - beneath a relatively tough plaster skim was a soft, pebbly sand render, and then clinker blocks, with a skin of bricks on the outside. As soon as the drill kicks out a 6-10 mm pebble, the hole doubles in size, the drill goes off centre, and either hits a tough piece of clinker, or pushes right through a very soft mortar bed. Then the hole would have to be enlarged and filled with a suitably tough filler before a reasonably precise hole dould be drilled.

The solution for me was usually to use an old rawl drill, a hand held percussion drill that you hit with a hammer, like a cold chisel or centre punch. At least it would make a precisely positioned hole, but too small for plastic wall plugs, so either I'd use hand-made plugs from waste timber, chopped out with a chisel or try to enlarge the hole carefully with a masonry bit in a power drill at minimum speed for larger plastic plugs.

I doubt these Rawldrills are made these days, but they may be found at car boot sales or in shops that sell old secondhand tools. Don't attempt to put the Rawldrills in a rotary drill though, the bits will simply bind and snap off in the hole.

Ah happy memories of snapping one then trying to improvise with a screw or nail because you had lost the removal wedge!

 

[Dave54]

I once had walls like this in a between-the-wars ex-council house - beneath a relatively tough plaster skim was a soft, pebbly sand render, and then clinker blocks, with a skin of bricks on the outside. As soon as the drill kicks out a 6-10 mm pebble, the hole doubles in size, the drill goes off centre, and either hits a tough piece of clinker, or pushes right through a very soft mortar bed. Then the hole would have to be enlarged and filled with a suitably tough filler before a reasonably precise hole dould be drilled.

The solution for me was usually to use an old rawl drill, a hand held percussion drill that you hit with a hammer, like a cold chisel or centre punch. At least it would make a precisely positioned hole, but too small for plastic wall plugs, so either I'd use hand-made plugs from waste timber, chopped out with a chisel or try to enlarge the hole carefully with a masonry bit in a power drill at minimum speed for larger plastic plugs.

I doubt these Rawldrills are made these days, but they may be found at car boot sales or in shops that sell old secondhand tools. Don't attempt to put the Rawldrills in a rotary drill though, the bits will simply bind and snap off in the hole.

Ah happy memories of snapping one then trying to improvise with a screw or nail because you had lost the removal wedge!

The even better part was trying to get the broken stub out of the hole. Inevitably it was always on some job where the hole couldn't just be moved without looking a mess.
Mine are still in the (inherited with more Rawlplug tools in it) OXO tin along with the removal wedge and some spare drills.
Don't think I've used them since I got an SDS drill.
First job I worked on as an apprentice after I went into "The Works" was clipping a cable to engineering brick using one of those tools. Fibre plugs, black Japanned inch eights, and blisters. . .

 

[Codekid]

Thanks for all the replies.

What is the best SDS drill to get and bits? Budget at the moment is probably no more than £160.

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 174758]

What is the best SDS drill to get and bits? Budget at the moment is probably no more than £160.

If you are going to buy an SDS drill, then ideally go for something which is durable and has rotation stop (so called 3-function) which will allow you to do light chiselling work in the future (e.g. removing tiles, chiselling off render, removing bricks, etc). The cost is little more than a 2-function drill and most manufacturers have moved to 3-function only in recent years. If you want something which will last then you need to look at trade brands such as Bosch blue (not green), Makita, Metabo, Hitachi, deWalt and possibly AEG. There are Ryobis but TBH they aren't as good a quality tool (sorry, B-A). That puts you in the area of £100 to £120 for a drill, e.g Bosch GBH2-26DRE, Makita HR2300, Hitachi DRP26PX, Metabo KHE2444, etc

You can get cheaper models such as the Evolution 2kg (£54) or the Ryobi ERH-710RS (£87) or even those massive 5kg+ Titans sold by Screwfix. The really cheap ones (like the Titan) have zero parts backup so if/when they go wrong out of warranty, they're scrap. The big names tend to keep parts in stock for their trade ranges for 10 or more years (but the bearings, etc are rated for a longer life in any case). Also there's weight - go much more than 3kg and it becomes a battle to hold a drill while you actually drill - which is why most tradesmen have a "2kg class" SDS (actually 2 to 3kg weight)

In terms of drill bits, avoid the cheapest brands, like Erbauer or Silverline. Stick with the tools sold by the big drill makers, or other reasonable quality brands such as Heller or Rawl who've been around long enough to build a reputation. You'll basically need 5.5mm for red plugs and 7mm for brown plugs as a starter

 

[JohnD]

The big heavy cheap ones are IMO only worth having if you are doing a particular short-term job where you will be using it a lot before the guarantee runs out. With a good guarantee, you can take it back if it breaks, and get a new one. If you intended to keep it for a long time, you might or might not be lucky.

I got a Titan and it was a terrific bargain, got me through some heavy concrete drilling and I have not needed to use it again. The bits and steels included in the pack seemed OK, but I hear they are not good quality.

But if you have a budget of £160 you can afford better. The cheap ones are not suitable for everyday work because they are so big and heavy.