Joining conservatory water to existing house downpipe

[duncan32]

Hello,

I have quite a large conservatory that has the water going to a big water butt. Obviously, this fills pretty quickly when there is a lot of heavy rain and the continual emptying is getting me down (and my back!). I want to link the overflow from the water butt to the existing downpipe of the house. So, if we are on holiday or something we don't have to worry about the rain overflowing the water butt and flooding the side of the house and doing who knows what damage to the foundations?? But, equally, if we keep the water butt we can then pick and choose when to empty it, if we want to use the water for the garden or just can't be boterhed emptying it for a week or two!

So, the job I want doing would be to pull up the slabs by the side of the house (a distance of 20 feet) and dig down to put in the piping required and then to join up to the existing down pipe, and return slabs. It is all in one direction, no going around corners etc.

Does this sound like a plausible idea? If so, the next question, is how big a job is this and how much could I expect to be forking out?

Thanks to anyone who can find time to reply.

Duncan

 

[noseall]

It is do-able provided the existing storm system is running ok and that it is not unfeasibly deep. 20 feet is no great distance so i would imagine you will achieve the falls required.

It may be that the house drains into a soakaway that in turn could be overwhelmed or just shot, including the drain pipe leading to it.

Do you know whether you have a storm system that drains water away from the property or are you on a soakaway system?

 

[duncan32]

Hello, Thanks for the reply. To be honest, I really don't know about the storm or soakaway, I don't know how I would find out, other than digging up the ground where the house downpipe goes in.

However, I have been thinking and have another possible solution: a bigger water butt! The current one is about 180 litres, I think. If I bought one that was massive (such as the attached 700 litres butt http://www.gardenbuildings-uk.com/details.asp?prodid=700LitreWaterTank&cat=30) it would be very unlikely to overflow. Also, I was wondering whether it would be feasible to simply attach a hose to the tap of the water butt and put the other end onto the front lawn, then turn the tap on. Now, I know that there may not be enough pressure, but was wondering if there is anyhing you can add to the mix to sort this problem out. I know I am going off on a tangent here, but what do you (or anyone else!) think? Does this sound sensible? It certainly sounds like it would be a hell of a lot cheaper!

Thanks for reading.

Duncan

 

[r896neo]

If you have the time and are up for having a go yourself modifying the drainage will certainly be cheaper than buying that sukka.

What are you hoping to connect to? a simple but ugly way would be to runa normal 40mm waste pipe or even a length of guttering downpipe from the back of the butt to the other gulley and clip it along the wall.

If this is not feasible or would look stupid then lifting the slabs and connecting into the existing system is a bit of hard work but very simple.

Drainage is very rudimentary and definately something you can do yourself if you have the time.

Ideally post a photo or even a simple drawing or description of the existing place you want to connect to. Also try and find the first inspection chamber downstream of said connection point and see how deep the pipe for that gulley comes in at.

 

[theoldun]

Duncan, Noseall is right and has gone straight to the crux. Are you on storm, combined or soakaway? If soakaway, it could be past its sell by date all as noseall has said. how ever If you want to try the existing down pipe, will tell you a cheap way that we have done in the past.
First, think long and hard about buying that 700 litre tank. There are many complicated formulas for working out rainfall, but if you take the simplest design and assume a 10mm rainfall over 1m2 over 5 minutes as being the worst case, and assume that the size of your conservatory is say 4x4m2 with say a 20% increase for roof slope this could give you 200 litres in the first 5 minutes. and if it then rained continuously for say the next 4 hours, your butt will be full. You then have 700 litres water to be rid of instead of your possible 100/200 litre that you have at present.
For your consideration. If you can, block existing butt up 300mm or so to give more head Buy a 22mm tank connector, drill and fit this to butt, either third down or half down depending how much water you wish to retain for watering garden and also to give you an empty top storage area for initial rainfall.
Buy 21.5mm overflow pipe 90&45 degree bends as required, and solvent cement and pipe clips. Run pipe work clipped to wall at say 1in60 fall to rainwater down pipe. Buy a 22mm overflow to rainwater down pipe connector. Will fit either round or square pipe. Easy enough to fit, just drill hole and worm in. Connect all up. If this is not taking water away fast enough, then run another one in line to first.
If you have doorway in the run drop pipework under cill and into downpipe. The head will push it through.
Dont blame me though if your existing soakaway will not take additional water. If it does not, then consider, change outlet for 22mm compression tank connector, reduce to 15mm copper, connect, hose, or perforated hose, and run on to lawn. Be no good in winter though as hose will freeze. Take with a pinch of salt, drainage being easy and rudimentry.
old un

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

For the benefit of anyone looking to respond to duncans thread. //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=224218

 

[duncan32]

Oh God, I am now so confused and unsure of what path to take, really I am. I am worried about adding to what could be a soakaway, can't afford to pay for the work that would need doing to join up to the existing down-pipe, anyway(whether it goes into a soakaway or not) I suspect. It would surely look ugly if it was attached to the wall, and I don't see how that could work. The butt is right next to the back door from the kitchen, and it would have to pretty much immediately drop to below the sill and be almost horisontal for the bulk of the 20 foot distance. But, then, as you say, even 700 litres would fill reasonably quickly. Then, I am thinking, it would take three times as long to fill, surely? And with a water pump, I could avoid having to break my back with buckets for half an hour every time I need to empty it (could presumably wash the cars, clean the conservatory windows even, and just let the rest shoot away onto the main road while I got on with other stuff and waited for it to empty?). I do really appreciate everyone's advice on this, and apologise if I come across as thick or indecisive, but you must understand that this has pretty much been the bane of my life for a good few years now and I am desperate to make the right and informed decision to make the problem go away! I will try to work out how to post a picture during tomorrow, if I can get time,

Thanks again.

Duncan

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=129539

 

[theoldun]

For the benefit of anyone looking to respond to duncans thread. //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=224218[/QUOTE]
Have read this post, and as we have a similar drainage problem coming up shortly we would really appreciate clarification on the following points.
You state that it is illegal and unlawful to connect a private drain to a combined system or a storm system without permission being granted from building control.
We have always been led to understand that it has nothing what so ever to do with building control and does not come under their jurisdiction in any way, except for the drain to be laid all as compliance with regs.
We have always been led to believe that under the Water Industry Act a house owner or occupier has a right to connect to a public sewer and that right can only be denied by the Sewer Undertaker, on the grounds of insufficient flow or capacity. where not appropriate, where prejudicial or insufficient notice of intention.
Could you please confirm, are we right or wrong, as we may have to reconsider our own future problem.
old un.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I thought any new connection to a sewer for a new development required a section 106 agreement from the sewerage undertaker. A connection to an existing system for an additional W.C. etc would only require building control inspection.

Whereabouts are you Duncan? P.M. me and i'll come and have a look if you're not to far from me.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

What's wrong with connecting it to the existing rainwater drainage from his roof??
I agree he wouldn't be allowed to connect it to waste water drainage into the foul sewer but surely would be allowed to connect to rainwater drainage??

Its illegal to connect into the existing mains, waste or rainwater, unless permission is granted from Building Control.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/Pp...gportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADH_2002.pdf section 3.2

Whether you get found out or not should you do so and the consequences are another matter.

To clarify this is referring to surface water not foul.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

To recap duncans 'problem' to dispel any confusion here.

His initial post on here was a guide price to drain his conservatory rainwater into the mains (with the permission of Building Control).

His conservatory currently drains into a butt which needs emptying by hand.

He cannot (unless against Building Control Approval) have a soakaway as adjacent buildings are too close.

He's now toying with the idea of a bigger water butt.

He doesn't want to stick an a pipe down the side of his house to drain the existing rwp into the existing.

Unless he can establish where his existing drainage goes he'll have to employ a builder to investigate.

 

[duncan32]

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• duncan32
• 11 May 2010
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• duncan32
• 11 May 2010
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• duncan32
• 11 May 2010
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Well, that seemed to work. Here are some photos. I am heavily coming down on the side of the "bigger water butt and a water butt pump" option, at the moment, but could be swayed. Anyway, thanks to anyone who gives / has given advice.

Duncan

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

In the third picture, is that a soil pipe or rwp? Do you know if you've got separate foul and surface water sewers or are they combined?

 

[duncan32]

Hello,

That's the pipe that takes the water from the roof. So, I'm pretty sure that there is a seperate sewer for foul and sewer, as the foul one is (I think) at the back of the house.

I tried to take the pictures in sequence, to show the water butt, then how the door and the boiler vent are in the way of potential piping to join up to the roof down pipe. The distance from the butt to the pipe on the third photo is 20 foot. The pipe that comes down in the 1st photo goes into the water butt.

Duncan