Just had my boiler disconnected due to undersized pipes HELP

[Agile]

Whilst that interpretation is fine as far as the boiler is concerned, the real situation is that often a cooker is on the same undersized supply pipe and losing half the supply pressure suddenly can cause the cooker flame to go out.

That possibility should then be classed as Immediately dangerous.

 

[picasso]

there might be a something else connected to the gas pipes, I would not be in a hurry to reconnect if a hob was installed on 10mb.

 

[OLLIE20]

Thats only a diagnostic fee for fault finding.

Kent is SE of London and must be in MK territory !

The obvious simple solution is to run a correctly sized pipe up the outside of the building.

The OP has not explained why the 15 mm cannot be upgraded to 22 mm.

I thought we were still meant to turn off anything classed as At Risk or has it changed since I did my ACS last August ?

Tony

AT RISK is defined as having the potential to be dangerous, but does not mean that it is, therefore, the operative had no right to cap the supply to the appliance!

AT RISK you are advised to TURN the appliance of i.e the rotary switch on the boiler to zero and advise that should they continue to use it, then they do so at there own risk.

All in all, insufficient working pressure at the inlet to a room sealed fan asissted boiler will only create a situation where the heat output of the boiler is reduced and due to the way modern air/gas ratio valves operate, if anything there would be to much air in relation to gas which, would only reduce the efficiency of the appliance.

Hardly a reason to disconnect the supply, another instance where poorley trained/inexperienced operatives go to far.

BG are by far the worst!

Note: with the use of a flue gas analyser and all readings being well, it could be classed NCS.

I think what may have happened is if you have low inlet working pressure on an appliance with a zero goveror, and you carry out a flue gas analysis check, the co ppm will be very high, generally higher than the manufacturer allows (if stated), the RGI may have come across this, and decided it was burning incorrectly, incorrect combustion is ID, dont mean to be argumentative but having a dig a BG and then you saying low inlet working pressure has no effect other than efficiency on an appliance with a zero govenor is incorrect

 

[Agile]

I think its fairly well documented that an Ideal of that style will happily burn cleanly down to less than 8 mB.

 

[namsag]

ICANTHELP.


I suggest you read up on undersize pipework as it can be classed as ID so without actually seeing how the appliance is working how can you say the guy was wrong to class it as that.
He is the guy in front of it not you who is sat behind a key board

 

[OLLIE20]

I think its fairly well documented that an Ideal of that style will happily burn cleanly down to less than 8 mB.

I will have to take your world for that, i have never come across it on this applaince however, the statement was a blanket about all modern gas/ air ratio valves, which is 100% incorrect, for example a green star would not the co ppm would be higher than stated in MI's, basically i was making a point that before you (agile i know you didnt say it) start downing others, take a look closer too home

 

[1CANHELP]

Thats only a diagnostic fee for fault finding.

Kent is SE of London and must be in MK territory !

The obvious simple solution is to run a correctly sized pipe up the outside of the building.

The OP has not explained why the 15 mm cannot be upgraded to 22 mm.

I thought we were still meant to turn off anything classed as At Risk or has it changed since I did my ACS last August ?

Tony

AT RISK is defined as having the potential to be dangerous, but does not mean that it is, therefore, the operative had no right to cap the supply to the appliance!

AT RISK you are advised to TURN the appliance of i.e the rotary switch on the boiler to zero and advise that should they continue to use it, then they do so at there own risk.

All in all, insufficient working pressure at the inlet to a room sealed fan asissted boiler will only create a situation where the heat output of the boiler is reduced and due to the way modern air/gas ratio valves operate, if anything there would be to much air in relation to gas which, would only reduce the efficiency of the appliance.

Hardly a reason to disconnect the supply, another instance where poorley trained/inexperienced operatives go to far.

BG are by far the worst!

Note: with the use of a flue gas analyser and all readings being well, it could be classed NCS.

I think what may have happened is if you have low inlet working pressure on an appliance with a zero goveror, and you carry out a flue gas analysis check, the co ppm will be very high, generally higher than the manufacturer allows (if stated), the RGI may have come across this, and decided it was burning incorrectly, incorrect combustion is ID, dont mean to be argumentative but having a dig a BG and then you saying low inlet working pressure has no effect other than efficiency on an appliance with a zero govenor is incorrect

Look Bg man, I can assure you that to much air as this is what will be happening as when the boiler goes to full rate with the fan spinning at max chat causing the air/gas ratio valve to open fully, allowing the 10mb it may want more through.......

Will not cause the co reading to rise THEY will fall.

Insufficient air for the complete burning of the fuel i.e gas WILL cause co levels to rise this is incomplete combustion. TO MUCH air is not going to cause co levels to go high.

On oil systems, remember oil is a fuel like any other, excess air IS introduced to bring the smoke number in line. However, this then causes efficiency and CO2 levels to fall and also CO levels.

I have seen many boilers happily working away with 10-15mbar in fact it s a false reading in many cases and the inlet pressure is usually higher, it is due to the effect the fan and air gas ration valve have upon the inlet pressure.

I would never say all BG are bad that is just silly. I have been in this game a long time and remember when THE GAS BOARD trained their chaps correctly. I know many ex old gas board guys running medium to large businesses and they never employ the short course trained idiots BG are churning out now.

You are case and point on how bad there training is.

 

[Agile]

I was only saying that in relation to Ideal Isar/Icos style boilers ( as this discussion is about them ).

Other boilers react differently and many get seriously out of adjustment if there is undersized pipework.

The actual problem is that the boiler can be correctly set at any fixed power output but as they modulate the mixture gets seriously incorrect as the boiler inlet pressure varies from say 22 mB down to 10 mB in an extreme case.

Tony

 

[OLLIE20]

Well i have worked on worcester greenstars when the inlet working pressure was extremely low and the co ppm was 700+ , the heat ex was totally clear/ gas valve set up correctly, changed meter gov, re checked all ok, how is this then?

Please explain 2 me, also who says i work for BG you clown, why do you assume, oh and what do you class a short course i did 5 years as an apprentice 1 year when left school, then 4 at college, also dont know if you know but BG's apprentaships are now 3 years long according to their website and also cost £16,000 if your over 18

 

[petit_pablo]

I think what may have happened is if you have low inlet working pressure on an appliance with a zero goveror, and you carry out a flue gas analysis check, the co ppm will be very high,

Id have said that the ratio would likely be lower due to excess air.

incorrect combustion is ID,

Its not on a room sealed applianace its AR.

Kind of shot yourself in the foot here [/quote]

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Tricky one, the Ideals normally have the 1:1 ratio gas valve fitted so will work on a lower mb input, if all the flats are the same and all ok after 4 years, I think "capping off" without "permission" isn't on, I would have given her a warning notice, got her to sign it as the "responsible" person and left it connected.

 

[petit_pablo]

also dont know if you know but BG's apprentaships are now 3 years long according to their website and also cost £16,000 if your over 18

Doesnt make the training any better just more painful.

Charging for over 18s is because the government stopped subsidising it.

 

[petit_pablo]

Tricky one, the Ideals normally have the 1:1 ratio gas valve fitted so will work on a lower mb input, if all the flats are the same and all ok after 4 years, I think "capping off" without "permission" isn't on, I would have given her a warning notice, got her to sign it as the "responsible" person and left it connected.

As any normal RGI would.

 

[1CANHELP]

I was at a 37cdi the other week, 1" into the house, 22mm to boiler few meters and a couple of bends.

Inlet pressure when running full load, 14mbar. spoke to worcester and was informed perfectly normal as was my very very low co reading 0.0003

Go away you fool as I have explained as plainly as I can about exess air and a couple of others agree yet you can't seem to understand.

Think about it, too much air is bad for combustion

 

[OLLIE20]

Really you would AR an applaince with incomplete combustion, nah not me mate ID every time for me, on the job at the begining of the thread, if there was no detremental effect on combustion

i would NCS the boiler, just to be clear im talking about the co ppm reading on my Flue gas analyser not the ratio reading or the co2% this would be lower with low inlet working pressure