kitchen light help

[pablomozza]

Hi I'm new and need a little help please.

I have a set of spot lights for my kitchen with 3 spots, these all wire in to one 3 way connector, all the blue in to one hole, the brown in to another and that is it.

however

from my ceiling I have 3 cables all with 3 wires, so I have 9 wires, 3 red, 3 black and 3 all copper, I bunched all the red together and connected, bunched all the black togther and connected, and bunch all the cooper (which I assumed was the earth wires) together and connected, I turned the electric on and the lights came on, when I turned the lights off the fuse blew,

now I had already once wired these up but the way i;d wired them I lost connection to the light in the downstairs bathroom.

plus the light fitting has no actually earth wire or seperate connection for an earth wire, so can anyone help me at all please. many thanks in advance

 

[ColJack]

if the light is plastic then it doesn't need an earth.. so just put some earth sleeving on the copper wires and put them into a terminal block..

the reason your fuse blew is that one of the blacks isn't a neutral, it's a switched live back from the light switch..

you need to take them out and find which one.

the easiest way to do this without a meter is to seperate the 3 blacks into individual terminal blocks, and connect a light between 2 of them..
with the switch on, if it lights then try a different 2, and repeat until you find the 2 where it doesn't light, or lights dimly..
these are the 2 neutrals and the other is the switched live.
this switched live needs some red tape on it or brown tape if you can't get red.. ( so you know for future reference which is which.. )

the light then connects between the 2 black neutrals, and the red taped black switch wire..
the 3 reds go toregther into a seperate terminal on their own and are not connected to anything..
]

for mor info and pictures please try this artilce in the wiki..http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:blackswlive

 

[bongos]

At the ceiling one red will be the switch feed to the light switch and one black will be the switched live from the light switch back to your fitting (this should have red sleeving on it).

So while all the reds would go together in the fitting the blacks will not. The black switch return will be the 'Live' for the fitting.

It sounds like you have created a short across the light switch by connecting in the method you have suggested. This will also explain why you have lost the light in the next room.

Have a look here.

Also if your fitting is double insulated it will have no earth. Normally there is space in a terminal block to 'park' the earths. These 'all copper' as you refer to should all be sleeved in green/yellow sleeving.

 

[pablomozza]

thank you for ure replies, i've done it now and its all working cheers

 

[Albert]

thank you for ure replies, i've done it now and its all working cheers

I know that I am a bit late, but advice for the next time:
to identify the cable that is coming from the switch, turn off the circuit breaker and make sure that there is no power to the switch, short the black and the red (or blue and brown) in the switch, with a basic tester you check for "short" every set of black and red (or blue and brown), the set that have the "short" is the cable from the switch.

The red/brown from the switch in the ceiling will go with all the reds/browns, the black/blue from the switch has to be marked with a brown/red sleeve/tape and will be connected separately.

The other black/blue together.

The live of the light fitting will be connected to the separated black/blue and the neutral to the other black/blues.

Earth all insulated and together.

Do not forget the connect back the light switch as it was.

 

[ColJack]

why mess about in the light switch to short it out..?

just turn the damn thing on... simple... ( unless you have dimmers fitted.. )

and if he doesn't have a tester? use the bulb and holder you are trying to swap for the new one..

 

[Albert]

why mess about in the light switch to short it out..?

just turn the damn thing on... simple... ( unless you have dimmers fitted.. )

I find it quiet surprising that you advice some one who is not qualified or has not enough experience to work on a live circuit especially when it is not really necessary!!! Even in practical terms, how hard is it to remove the light switch plate?

and if he doesn't have a tester? use the bulb and holder you are trying to swap for the new one..

If he does not have a basic tester (can get one for under £10), in my opinion this is a good reason for him not to touch the electrics at all...[/quote]

 

[ColJack]

i never said work on a live circuit..

ok, I may have missed a few steps and not mentioned turning the breaker off between changing the terminals over..