Kitchen ring main damged

[80sman]

The ring main supplying the kitchen has got damaged. There's a bit more to the story, would any body be able to tell me whats required to repair it.

See link.

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1005448#1005448

Thanks

 

[Chri5]

I take it there's a socket somewhere on the wall before the damage point and join that then goes under the counter.

Reason I ask is that cable zones, mean the cable should be ID'd as in the wall because there is a socket somewhere to the LHS of the photo ?

The choc connectors cannot be used and then buried under plaster !

They will need crimping as a permanent joint and the CPC / earth will require green / yellow sleeve.

It does rather look as if the cowboys have been working on the kitchen.

All electrical work in kitchens needs to be notified to the LBO (Council) and so MUST be done by a Part P registered spark who must provide a certificate.

I suggest you hold back 25% of the job value untill such paperwork is provided.

 

[flameport]

Damaged cable - the correct way to fix this is to remove the cable and replace it. That terminal block is totally unacceptable.
As this is a new kitchen why are the cables clearly old ones? Did the quote for the kitchen not include rewiring?

The extension leads for the appliances are wrong, the one in the photo is not wired properly, and appliances should be connected to a socket or fused spur, not an extension lead.

 

[80sman]

I think that wiring comes from the fuse box and goees to socket beneath the counter that has the extension lead in it..... that the oven/hob/dishwasher is plugged into.

The rest of the sockets are further round the room so there is an in and out cable.

 

[80sman]

I thought the quote for the kitchen included re-wiring, apparently it's for installation of appliences in accordence with part p (on paper) which doesn't mean re-wiring.......... I think......

 

[flameport]

From the other post:

3) The fitters managed to drop something into a wall and split the ring main which in turn blew main fuse outside in the meter.

This should not happen - the fuse or breaker for the individual circuit should have operated long before the main fuse.

Oven and dishwasher - as both of these will use 10+ amps each, connecting them to a extension lead rated at 13A is not going to work.
There is also a double socket outlet just a few inches from the gas hob.

Do any of these socket outlets have RCD protection?
Can you get a photo of your fusebox/consumer unit and the surrounding area (electricity meter etc.)?

 

[80sman]

This house was built in 1985, the consumer unit is a basic fuse box, with changable wire. No rcb's

Just talking to my Dad about it and we've concluded that they must have blown all the fuses, then replaced the wire, they didn't tell me this when I found the house without electric, they were very open to the opinion that it was a power cut in the area. I phoned up the electric board. The meter is outside. The fuse within is the sealed 40amp one that the electric board came to change.

 

[80sman]

I'll grab some photo's in a bit.

 

[80sman]

Fusebox


Metre

Edit:: The extra smaller consumer unit with the rcb's supplys an electric shower in the bathroom and the garage outside.

 

[80sman]

So when I see the company rep this morning I should request that the damged cable be replaced, is this going to be enough?

I was wondering if there was the possibility of melted cables anywhere else due to what must have been a reasonably long/big short to blow all fuses including house fuse.

Should I ask for a further test / inspection of the electrical system?

Thanks for the help

 

[flameport]

From what can be seen in the photos, to comply with BS7671 & building regulations it will need (as a minimum):

1. RCD for the socket outlets in the kitchen - this could be added next to the existing fusebox.
2. Individual sockets for the oven, dishwasher and hob ignition (and any other appliances which don't have them).
3. The damaged cable could be repaired with crimps, but it would be far better to replace the damaged section - particularly as the walls are not tiled/decorated yet, and even crimping will still require that some of the cable is removed from the wall.
4. The socket outlet next to the gas hob needs to be moved further away (at least 300mm)

There may well be other problems not apparent from the photos.

Really, a new circuit should have been installed for the whole kitchen - by the time people have hacked about with what is there, a new circuit would probably be quicker and cheaper anyway.

Work in a kitchen is notifiable, the person/company installing it must either be registered (search for them at www.competentperson.co.uk ) or have already sent a building notice to your local council.

Either way, the modified circuits must be properly tested before use, and a certificate provided showing these test results.

 

[bongos]

Damage to ring main wiring, still not sure how it managed to blow the meter fuse....... bit worried about that.

Looking at this damaged ring main it appears that there are two 2.5mm t+e on the left hand side and one on the right. Does one of the left hand side cables disapear into the wall underneath the terminal block elsewhere?

Also, judging by the join under the worktop level and the fact that your sockets are likely to be above the worktop it seems highly likely that some of these cables may not be run in safe zones (as Chri5 stated earlier).

I'm guessing maybe they drilled through the cable rather than dropped something on it but i'm suprised that even that would blow the service fuse.

...we've concluded that they must have blown all the fuses, then replaced the wire...

If this is the case then it would be a good idea to check that the new fusewire in the cartridges is the right size for the respective fuse because judging by the standard of work so far you could have a nasty suprise in there too!

 

[80sman]

The company have sent a surveyor out this morning, who like yourselves has recommended the consumer unit is upgraded, the original surveyor and fitters had not mentioned this.

I beleive there was no electrician in the original team, however the company were contracted to install appliances in accordence with part p.

Thanks for everybodys comments here, it's enabled me to point out more faults to the surveyor, that otherwise I believe may have been missed.

I'll have to go and buy more wire for the fuses, there's a good possibility that they've wired up 15amp with 30amp fuse wire.

 

[80sman]

Damage to ring main wiring, still not sure how it managed to blow the meter fuse....... bit worried about that.

Looking at this damaged ring main it appears that there are two 2.5mm t+e on the left hand side and one on the right. Does one of the left hand side cables disapear into the wall underneath the terminal block elsewhere?

Also, judging by the join under the worktop level and the fact that your sockets are likely to be above the worktop it seems highly likely that some of these cables may not be run in safe zones (as Chri5 stated earlier).

I'm guessing maybe they drilled through the cable rather than dropped something on it but i'm suprised that even that would blow the service fuse.

That's something I'd not heard of before. I must also apoligise for the picture, it needs to be rotated by 90 degrees, it's cables are running up and down and connect to a socket which was under the counter to plug a fridge into originally. I have another socket like this behind the washing machine. I'm also just getting the feeling that maybe these should be rewired as fused spurs...... is that right?

 

[bongos]

That's something I'd not heard of before. I must also apoligise for the picture, it needs to be rotated by 90 degrees, it's cables are running up and down and connect to a socket which was under the counter to plug a fridge into originally.

Sorry for my confusion! It looked to me like the join was just under a kitchen worktop and that they were horizontal cables. Now I know they are vertical cables . The other plug sockets should be inline horizontally or vertically with these cables as to remain in safe zones. If they are not then no-one could ever be expected to know where the cables are and so could easily drill/nail through them etc.

I have another socket like this behind the washing machine. I'm also just getting the feeling that maybe these should be rewired as fused spurs...... is that right?

I understand there are several ways to wire a kitchen ring final. One is to have a ring with several switched FCU's on it and then an unswitched socket below each one. Another is to have a ring final circuit with switched socket faces and plug whatever you require straight into it.

Care has to be taken with the load on the ring as it will commonly be wired in 2.5 t+e with a 32A breaker (yours should have 30A fusewire in it). If you have alot of high power loads on it at the same time then the circuit can be overloaded and lead to the fuse/mcb disconnecting it. However, these style cartridge fuses will allow a small overload current to run through them for an indefinate amount of time without blowing.