Starters rarely fail and it is silly to replace them with a lamp.
kitchen under cabinet lighting
- Thread starter ih
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Starters rarely fail and it is silly to replace them with a lamp.
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Industrial we would always change the starter with the tube if they have starters because of labour costs. I see your point if tube replaced before it starts to fail then likely starter will last two tubes.
As to direction of light from tubes you can buy special tubes with a coating to reflect the light in one direction and also special coating to increase light output. However with 5 foot tube that increases the price by a factor of 4 still far cheaper than LED but with like the LED a directional output in the main the high output tubes are for when you have miss calculated and you should have used low bay lights. In the main the output from the fluorescent tube is good enough as it is without special reflectors built in.
The problem is often you need the spread of light but not that much light and the LED tube allows one to reduce the light output. For a corridor LED is great, it gives enough light to see where you are going and can take many more starts than the fluorescent so tubes can be on a PIR and be switching on and off like a yo-yo.
In the office we need HF fittings because of head ache problems which some people get with 50Hz and we also need the amount of light or some one got it wrong on the design stage. So office stays with fluorescent.
As to direction of light from tubes you can buy special tubes with a coating to reflect the light in one direction and also special coating to increase light output. However with 5 foot tube that increases the price by a factor of 4 still far cheaper than LED but with like the LED a directional output in the main the high output tubes are for when you have miss calculated and you should have used low bay lights. In the main the output from the fluorescent tube is good enough as it is without special reflectors built in.
The problem is often you need the spread of light but not that much light and the LED tube allows one to reduce the light output. For a corridor LED is great, it gives enough light to see where you are going and can take many more starts than the fluorescent so tubes can be on a PIR and be switching on and off like a yo-yo.
In the office we need HF fittings because of head ache problems which some people get with 50Hz and we also need the amount of light or some one got it wrong on the design stage. So office stays with fluorescent.
Yes you have Magnetic chokes/ballasts, also known as switchstart, which as you say have starters to work.
Electronic never have starters
Some old 1960 fittings were NOT electronic and had NO starters but not many still exist
Are you sure about 865 its a very blue light and in my opinion 840 is brighter.
It is false economy NOT to change the starter, at 80p each an old dodgy starter can shorten the life of a £4 tube.
Winston lives in the past, tubes are more advanced and most 8** prefixed lamps in manufacturers specs will be good for 2 years, I challenge Winston to find any starter specification that can match that.
Another thing worth considering, when you turn them on do you get an annoying flickering first.
For extra cost you could fit Electronic starters, these delay the on then come on first hit, the delay is no more than the annoying flicker, but looks more proffesional, google part numbers BG EFS 120 and BG EFS 600
Electronic never have starters
Some old 1960 fittings were NOT electronic and had NO starters but not many still exist
Are you sure about 865 its a very blue light and in my opinion 840 is brighter.
It is false economy NOT to change the starter, at 80p each an old dodgy starter can shorten the life of a £4 tube.
Winston lives in the past, tubes are more advanced and most 8** prefixed lamps in manufacturers specs will be good for 2 years, I challenge Winston to find any starter specification that can match that.
Another thing worth considering, when you turn them on do you get an annoying flickering first.
For extra cost you could fit Electronic starters, these delay the on then come on first hit, the delay is no more than the annoying flicker, but looks more proffesional, google part numbers BG EFS 120 and BG EFS 600
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I appreciate 840/865 and i agree with you. Neighbour has 865 and she likes them so to avoid bickering will go with it.
Luckily do not get the flickering and yes replacement will have to be electronic ballast. Googling the part numbers is not
Getting me the results? Am assuming it is electronic ballast part? Thank you for your help.(perhaps you can name mid range quality electronic ballast as i need two for start)can i replace
Them as required or will i have to change all six at the same time considering they linked.(but
Have their individual magnetic ballast with switch)
My need electronic need will be for 8w/18/30 lamps.
Luckily do not get the flickering and yes replacement will have to be electronic ballast. Googling the part numbers is not
Getting me the results? Am assuming it is electronic ballast part? Thank you for your help.(perhaps you can name mid range quality electronic ballast as i need two for start)can i replace
Them as required or will i have to change all six at the same time considering they linked.(but
Have their individual magnetic ballast with switch)
My need electronic need will be for 8w/18/30 lamps.
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So are you implying that in the past starters lasted longer? Maybe that is right as I have starters in use 10 to 20 years old that outlived several tubes.
Incidentally the electronic starters I have come across are only for bigger tubes not the miniature ones under discussion.
I wonder how often they were 'used'. One assumes that the most crucial determinant of the life of a starter is the number of times the light 'starts', since that is the only time they do anything. I have some starters which are still working despite their pre-dating my move here, hence at least 30 years old, but they relate to lights which are only very occasionally switched on - quite possibly tens of times less usage than if they were switched on once or twice every day.
Kind Regards, John
They were used everyday. Starters can fail short circuit due to contacts sticking or the RFI capacitor failing. In this case both ends of the tube glow and nothing else. It is obvious there is a problem and no tube damage will occur if it is switched off (and starter changed). They can also fail open circuit (refusal to strike). In this case the tube won't strike either so no damage caused.
Replacing the starter with a tube change is just another example of the terrible throw away society we now live in. The most common starter is the 4 to 65w type and is what the average DIYer will buy. I recently had an example where a DIYer changed 2 18w tubes and starters and could not get it to work. I became involved and it was a 2 18w in series set up but he had bought 4 to 65w starters instead of series type. Of course he had chucked away the original starters and tubes. So it cost him 2 tubes, 4 starters and my call out charge, when all he needed to do was replace one tube that was flashing.
In some senses that it undoubtedly true. However, I think none has to accept that it many commercial/industrial/'public' environments, replacing a starter separately will involve a second call-out of electricians, which has environmental (e.g. travel-related pollution) as well as financial costs. In one's own home (or in any situation in which the end-user can, and is allowed to, replace a starter), I agree that it is probably inappropriate to replace starters 'unnecessarily'.
Kind Regards, John
One place I worked at used to replace all the tubes every six months (but not the starters) for this reason. Didn't really work however as there was always the "dud" tube or poor contact that failed in a few weeks necessitating a callback.
The replaced tubes were all put in the skip where they quickly disappeared. We found that one of our colleagues was giving them to a local charity shop so at least they did some good.
We had something similar Winston, giving the old tubes to a local school. That stopped when our good samaritan was asked by an EHO to produce a Waste Transfer Licence.
What I am saying is tubes last longer now than they used to.
Of course some people have had starters years as well as tubes for years, but unfortunately some starters fail after months and some like SBT brand even crumble into dust.
If you read any sales gumph prior to Hf ballasts.
Ge polylux one of the first 8** Triphosphor tubes, would guarentee there tubes for 2 years providing an electronic starter was used, hence lamping firms that done so, could relamp companies like mcdonalds and Abbey national, yearly and apart from fitting issues them lamps should still be lit and replaced prior to any failing, which was more economical than labour costs, for 1 lamp here and there.
They could not offer this warranty with any basic starter as there was so many starter brands both good and bad.
I have no doubt your right in some cases, but in a lot of domestic cases you will proberly find the original starter still fitted and that may have already lived through a few tubes or more likely a cheapo from poundland or woolworths, so IMO if your weighing out for a long life lamp, then stick a new starter in and hopefully your trouble free for some time.
So when the light fails what do you suggest, order a lamp and hope it works, then if it dont, waste more time and money running round for a £1 starter.
Or a week after you fit the lamp, the client calls you back because its flickering, what would you say oh sorry mate I charged you 30 odd quid to fit it but I tried to save you a quid by leaving the manky old starter in.
You may be right about the electronic, I forgot he also had two 8 watt, the EFS120 only goes as low as 15 watt, however the majority of the tubes the op has are T8 tubes 18w and 30w so hardly Miniature ones, whatever they are.
"Bigger tubes and miniature ones"
I investigate. If it is flickering remove the starter and see if it remains alight (starter fault) or goes out (tube fault). If both ends are permanently lit, starter short. If it is out remove tube and check heaters with a multimeter, if both OK starter fault, if either open circuit tube fault.
Realistically I have a spare starter so it is easy to check by substitution.
Is that possible for one failed tube to flash in a series pair fitting, I would say it was more likely one of the series pair starters failing making one tube flash
well lets beg to differ, if I was paying labour, id want new tube, new starter and diffuser cleaned, full service, no half hearted job.
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