LED tubes.

Nominal: being such in name only; so-called; putative

Medial: pertaining to a mean or average; average


Yes, well, ahem... :whistle:
 
Sponsored Links
Nominal: being such in name only; so-called; putative
Yep, as I said ...
... there is no doubt that the 'nominal voltage' (essentially meaning "in name only") in the UK is now 230V, since that what it has been bureaucratically defined to be.
So why did you write ...
The fact is our nominal voltage is still 240, whatever the re-written wording is in regs books to comply with our EU neighbours.
?

Kind Regards, John
 
John, I was explaining that it was "my bad" as I got the word 'nominal' confused.

I meant our UK voltage medial or average is 240 which appears to be what others were saying anyway.

I am guilty of scan reading and misinterpreting comments sometimes. Anyway I hope this clears things up.
 
John, I was explaining that it was "my bad" as I got the word 'nominal' confused.
Oh, sorry. I suppose I should have realised that - but I was thinking that you were trying to use the definition to justify/support your previous statement.

However, as I said, I do agree that it's all a bit silly. Unless the change in the nominal voltage in the UK was meant to be the prelude to the supply voltage actually (i.e. 'really') being lowered, gradually (and there's not really any sign of that happening, at least so far**) it's quite hard to see what the change actually achieved (other than lots of arguments - here and elsewhere!).

[ ** I'm not sure what is happening as transformers are replaced. One might think that that would be taken as an opportunity to reduce the voltage, but I'm not at all sure that is happening. One of the problems is that if actually voltage (from transformers) were reduced, current cabling might in many cases not be adequate to ensure that consumers most distant from the transformer received a voltage above the minimum permitted (currently 216.2V) - and to address that could be an extremely expensive and time consuming exercise ]

Kind Regards, John
 
Sponsored Links
When the declared voltage changed from 240 to 230 to harmonise there was in real terms no change, however micro generation has changed that, because the micro generators have to close down with over or under voltage the tapping have been now changed in many areas, and we are now getting around 230 volt average rather than 240 volt average, and as a result fluorescent fittings that have worked for years are failing.

I was given the task to fit temporary light on a large building site, and the boss had decided using fluorescent lights would be a better option than the standard 60W bulbs. The fittings we 110 volt 5 foot so quick calculation 58W would mean two fittings would use just over an amp, so 16A supply should supply around 32 fittings, but to give some leeway would use 25 fittings.

However called to look at lighting which had tripped, clamp-on meter showed using around 20 amp, so set out to find out why.

The fitting had a standard 230 volt ballast and starter, plus an auto transformer to step up voltage marked 110-0-127 volt, it was found if the supply went to the 127 volt tapping the current dropped from around 0.8A to around 0.6A so total dropped to 15A, however last few tubes failed to light, so first 20 changed, last 5 left at 110 volt tapping. And they then worked fine.

However these tests showed me the problem with magnetic ballasts in fluorescent lights, voltage is critical, too low and they fail, too high and they use well over rated current. Then came the electronic HF ballast, it has a high voltage range, so a 58W fluorescent actually uses more like 56W, and the high frequency (HF) means reduced strobe effect, it puts less strain on the tubes so they last longer, and actually the light output is increased, all round they are an improvement on the old magnetic ballast. In fact I don't think it is permitted to supply fluorescents with magnetic ballasts any more.

However when comparing LED with fluorescent it is compared to fittings with a magnetic ballast, so all the statements as to savings are false.

A LED package typically gives 70 to 110 lumen per watt, the lower outputs are in the main bulbs designed to be able to dim, using switch mode or pulse width modulated drivers they produce between 95 to 110 lumen per watt, the first LED tube I fitted was 24 watt and 2400 lumen so 100 lumen per watt, the second was 24 watt and 2200 lumen so 92 lumen per watt.

The fluorescent tube not so easy, it states 58W and 5200 lumen around 90 lumen per watt, but the HF ballast is claimed to increase that output and decrease power used, so in real terms output for fluorescent and LED very similar. The main gain is you are using a lower output lamp, you are using half the power, but also getting half the light.

With the compact fluorescent the 11W lamp was rated at around 64 lumen with LED at around 75 lumen how ever in both cases the light was radiated in a different direction to a tungsten 60W bulb so when the tungsten was replaced we often in real terms got less usable light, once light is absorbed by items in the room it becomes heat, we all know white curtains are best, as is a white ceiling, floor etc. However they don't look good, so we use other colours which don't reflect all the light, so putting a bulb with base at bottom or base at top in real terms affects the usable light. It may be 75 lumen but it does not light the room as well.

I replaced 10 Philips globe CFL 8W each with 10 Lidi candle LED lamps at 3W each and the room appeared brighter, however when trying to read a book found I needed a table lamp, so then fitted 10 Home bargains 5W globe lamps and I could again read without a table lamp.
 
.... and we are now getting around 230 volt average rather than 240 volt average...
Is that really true? I'm not aware of anyone who has noticed a change, and it still seems to be a novelty to see supply voltages appreciably under 240V.

Kind Regards, John
 
It has not changed in the UK. Interestingly I was in Athens last week and measured the voltage there at 240v. In most of Europe now the voltage is well above 230, usually around 235v. One exception, Budapest, where it is still 220v.
 
In my house outside Mold the old 65W fluorescent worked with 58W tubes for years, then a load of solar panels arrived in the area, and the light no longer started, it was at that point I remeasured voltage which was normally in my house just above 240 volt often around 245 volt, now it is 230 volt nearly spot on.

This was why I went to LED tube, to continue with fluorescent I would need to remove whole fitting and change the ballast, but did not need to remove and refit to take ballast out of circuit. Pure lazy.
 
Thanks to everyone for your advice etc. Ive now swapped to tubes for LED 18w ones and swapped the starter for the one that came with the LEDs, what a massive difference they make, much brighter and no warm up time/flickering so will be doing the same in the garage.
I was reading that I can take out the Balast and that will reduce power consumption even more. is that correct?
 
I was reading that I can take out the Balast and that will reduce power consumption even more. is that correct?
That is probably true. At least some energy will currently be being wasted in warming up the ballast, and there probably wouldn't be any significant ('compensating') increase in heating (hence energy wastage) in the tube's electronics if you removed the ballast - hence a net saving in energy usage.

Kind Regards, John
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top