Why the limitation of LED tubes?

[Milleniumaire]

Over the years I have actively replaced all the light bulbs (mainly halogen) with LED bulbs around our house and found that even with their lower wattage usage the light output seems to have been better or the same.

A quick look around the house to determine what is still not using LED uncovered a couple of 100W halogen bulbs in some walk in cupboards and the two 176cm (6ft) fluorescent tubes in the garage.

I've been thinking about replacing the fluorescent fittings in the garage for some time and today I started to research what would be an adequate replacement. To my surprise I quickly found that the LED equivalents, while using less wattage, produce nothing like the 6000 lumens each of my Sylvania F70W/135-T8's produce. My double garage is already a little dingy and if I'm doing any "detailing" on the car I generally have to use some portable LED lights that I purchased. I really don't want it to be any darker than it already is.

Having looked through the excellent DIYnot postings I see many people advocating that fluorescent tubes are better than LED tubes, so why switch.

Is anyone aware of a decent LED tube fitting that will produce at least 6000 lumens, won't cost the earth, will last as long as a fluorescent tube and will be cheaper to run? My suspicion is that such a thing doesn't exist!

 

[SFK]

Florescent tubes are very efficient - lots of light, not much heat, and relatively cheap.

I would argue (and agree with you) that LED tube were less effective due to their hight initial cost.

But LED efficiency does provide a return on their relative high cost when their are on for long periods in places like offices.

But for my garage not change from florescent to LED yet, as I do not use them often enough to get a positive return on investment.

But am seeing LED tubes get better so will change at some point in future.

For the ones I have changed I liked the ones from TLC, but that is based on purchase of only 2.

LED Batten Fittings Strip Light

Sfk

 

[JohnW2]

've been thinking about replacing the fluorescent fittings in the garage for some time and today I started to research what would be an adequate replacement. To my surprise I quickly found that the LED equivalents, while using less wattage, produce nothing like the 6000 lumens each of my Sylvania F70W/135-T8's produce. My double garage is already a little dingy and if I'm doing any "detailing" on the car I generally have to use some portable LED lights that I purchased. I really don't want it to be any darker than it already is.

It's certainly true that virtually all LED tubes are, in ballpark terms, about half thee wattage and half of the 'light output' of a fluorescent tube of the same length. I'm not sure why they don't make 'equivalent wattage/light output LED ones, but it may be a 'heat issue', given that there would seem to be no obvious way of providing effective 'heat sinks' for the LED elements in a tube.

However, as I've often reported, I have replaced many fluorescent tubes with LED ones of the same length and, at least so far, the resultant illumination has been perfectly adequate, in most cases not obviously different from that of the fluorescents. One reason for that may be that LED tubes are much more directional, sending most of the light downwards. In contrast, fluorescent tubes radiate light 'in all directions' and, particularly if the ceilings/walls are dark in colour (which could bee the case in your garage) much of the light which goes in directions other than 'down' might be absorbed by the surface it hits, hence 'lost'.

Having said that, if you found that direct swaps (per tube length) didn't give you enough light, would thee obvious solution not be to simply have twice as many of them - hence roughly the same wattage as the fluorescents they were replacing? I haven't looked, but I imagine that 'double LED tube fittings' are probably readily available.

Having looked through the excellent DIYnot postings I see many people advocating that fluorescent tubes are better than LED tubes, so why switch.

One answer to 'why switch' is that, at least theoretically, fluorescent tubes 'ceased to be available' last month, and it will presumably becomee increasingly difficult to fins them as time goes on.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Yes the fluorescent lamp is about the same lumen per watt to LED so no light gain moving to LED only difference is arsenic instead of mercury not sure which is worst?

The wire wound fluorescent ballast was very voltage dependent, over and it used a lot more than stated power, under and it would not start, the electronic HF ballast cured this, but I found forced to move to LED as the tubes I used were no longer available. I used 5 foot 65 watt tubes, and the 58 watt worked OK while the supply was at top of the voltage band, but failed when the voltage was dropped to 230 volt.

I fitted a 24 watt LED and as @JohnW2 says it was ample, although it did not last long, fluorescent tubes would last around 4 years, the LED failed within 18 months. Second one did better.

One could get coated tubes which send out most of the light in one direction, but it seems our hands are being forced, I went on the screwfix site and it shows a 19 watt 5 foot tube and says "2000lm - Equivalent to 54W" like heck, 58 watt tube it says "5200lm - Equivalent to 58W" so an extra 4 watt equals 3200lm that does not make sense. And the fluorescent gives out more light with a HF ballast to magnetic, and uses less power, so if 58 watt = 5200 lm with a magnetic the same tube with a HF is around 54 watt and 5600 lumen so beats most of the LED lamps.

I think those who want the change have smashed too many fluorescent tubes and are now as mad as a hatter due to mercury in the tubes?

 

[JohnW2]

I fitted a 24 watt LED and as @JohnW2 says it was ample, although it did not last long, fluorescent tubes would last around 4 years, the LED failed within 18 months. Second one did better.

I've been luckier than you. I replaced virtually all my fluorescent tubes with LED ones (probably 'the cheapest I could find') a good few years ago, and not one of them has yet failed. Experiences obviously differ.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I found my son had a problem in same house with gu10 lamps, not lasting long, yet here I think to date less than 6 lamps have failed. Here I have SPD's last house now my sons non, and I do wonder.

 

[flameport]

Is anyone aware of a decent LED tube fitting that will produce at least 6000 lumens

There is no tube, and looking for tubes to shove into fittings designed for fluorescents is not going to work.

This is the type of item: https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4968717-poppy-60w-6ft-led-batten-fitting-4000k
however be warned - this will appear significantly brighter than whatever fluorescent things you have currently got.

 

[sparkwright]

I prefer the led tubes that can be fitted to into existing fluorescent fittings.

I am sick of having to replace four year old integrated led battens. It's embarrassing. And expensive for the customer.

 

[JohnW2]

I prefer the led tubes that can be fitted to into existing fluorescent fittings..... I am sick of having to replace four year old integrated led battens. It's embarrassing. And expensive for the customer.

I can sympathise with that viewpoint, not the least because it's easier to replace a tube than a fitting, but in terms of cost since there is nothing in an integrated fitting+tube that isn't within a tube that "can be fitted into existing fluorescent fitting", it would be difficult to justify an integrated fitting costing much more than one of those other tubes (the only difference being a few bits of plastic.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Encourage a circular economy
A circular economy is the opposite of a linear economy, in which natural resources are taken, transformed into products, and disposed of.
The new lighting regulation aims to encourage a circular economy model, which will bring the lighting industry closer than ever before to a process which eliminates waste by investing more in materials, products and systems.
With this in mind, new lighting products should be designed to be more reliable. They should be upgradeable or repairable, which will encourage less waste. Finally, their design will contain more recyclable material and will be easier to dismantle, which will ultimately help to reduce landfill waste.

This it would seem means it is hard to market integrated units any more? I have not seen this to date.

 

[Milleniumaire]

Having said that, if you found that direct swaps (per tube length) didn't give you enough light, would thee obvious solution not be to simply have twice as many of them - hence roughly the same wattage as the fluorescents they were replacing? I haven't looked, but I imagine that 'double LED tube fittings' are probably readily available.

Kind Regards, John

I had thought about installing a couple more tubes, but even though this would be relatively simple, even for a DIY'er, I'm aware that I would require an electrician and get a certificate etc. so probably isn't worth the hassle or the cost!

Besides 4 x LED fittings, rather than 2 is an even larger expense and doesn't warrant the cost of replacing the existing fluorescent lights!

There is no tube, and looking for tubes to shove into fittings designed for fluorescents is not going to work.

This is the type of item: https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4968717-poppy-60w-6ft-led-batten-fitting-4000k
however be warned - this will appear significantly brighter than whatever fluorescent things you have currently got.

I haven't looked for tubes only as I wasn't aware it was possible to simply replace fluorescent tubes with LED tubes. If I could find some LED tubes with the same lumens output....

For the ones I have changed I liked the ones from TLC, but that is based on purchase of only 2.

LED Batten Fittings Strip Light

Sfk

I prefer the led tubes that can be fitted to into existing fluorescent fittings.

I am sick of having to replace four year old integrated led battens. It's embarrassing. And expensive for the customer.

I'm not fussed about replacing the existing light fittings, but would much prefer a fitting with a replaceable tube as I really don't like waste as John and ericmark have pointed out.

The TLC fittings + LED tubes look to be "okay", however they are only 5ft and I would prefer at least 6ft to ensure the light is spread to each side of the garage, rather than just down the middle. Not sure why TLC only appear to sell one size of LED fitting with replaceable tubes, while all the rest seem to be "disposable" i.e throw away when they fail.

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I haven't fully ruled out replacing my fluorescent tubes/fittings but if I do install LED's I want it to be an improvement in both light levels and running cost, otherwise what's the point!

 

[Milleniumaire]

If I was to simply replace the existing fluorescent tube with a LED tube like this one:

6ft 24w LED Flourescent Tube - Cool White - 4000 Luments

I assume it would be necessary to remove the starter, which I believe is plugged into the side of the fitting. I'm aware it is also possible to re-wire a fluorescent fitting to remove the ballast to ensure the least amount of power is used. I'm not sure how easy this would be to do with my existing fitting and guess this would be one reason to purchase new fittings.

 

[JohnW2]

I had thought about installing a couple more tubes, but even though this would be relatively simple, even for a DIY'er, I'm aware that I would require an electrician and get a certificate etc. so probably isn't worth the hassle or the cost!

I obviously no nothing about your competence of confidence as a DIYer, but, if both were adequate, you would not necessarily require an electrician.

Kind Regards, John