Loft insulation

[Sunshine12]

Where is the loft insulation supposed to go?

I want to use the eaves/edges of rooms for storage so was expecting cupboard doors all around not the edges.

Instead, the builder has insulated where the doors would go. He said this is the correct way?

The only way for me to get behind is take a piece of insulation out!

There's no insulation in what would be the 'cupboards'

Can someone please clarify what to do from here, how do I get storage cupboards with all this insulation in the stud walls?

 

[John D v2.0]

Well his way is the cold eaves way, and it's perfectly valid. Then the storage space is a bit like a normal loft - un heated and draughty.
Another way is a warm eaves where the insulated space is bigger. Costs more in insulation, is slightly less effective thermally overall, but probably more useful.
Personally I'd ask for warm eaves, but remember you can end up with condensation in your cupboards even with warm eaves.

 

[Sunshine12]

How do I physically get into the eaves now though? He said he could put one or two cupboard doors on & crawl through to the other areas!

It's cost me a lot in insulation.

Which is the 'correct' way of insulating a loft room? Cold or warm??

 

[Sunshine12]

Well his way is the cold eaves way, and it's perfectly valid. Then the storage space is a bit like a normal loft - un heated and draughty.
Another way is a warm eaves where the insulated space is bigger. Costs more in insulation, is slightly less effective thermally overall, but probably more useful.
Personally I'd ask for warm eaves, but remember you can end up with condensation in your cupboards even with warm eaves.

He's already done it now so I will have to pay for more insulation & labour.

What do you mean about condensation? If I do have it changed to the 'warm' way?

 

[John D v2.0]

There's no correct way. The correct way is according to the drawings for your project.
If he hasn't done what you paid for, ask him to do it properly. If the drawings are wrong, ask your architect to deal with it.
If you don't have an architect, then either have it as it is or negotiate a price to have it changed.

Regarding the condensation, most people have a corner in their house that gets a bit of black mould/mildew. Somewhere the air doesn't move much. You can imagine the eaves being a more extreme version of that as there are more paths to outside and less space for air to circulate. It's not a guaranteed problem but it can happen.

 

[Sunshine12]

There's no correct way. The correct way is according to the drawings for your project.
If he hasn't done what you paid for, ask him to do it properly. If the drawings are wrong, ask your architect to deal with it.
If you don't have an architect, then either have it as it is or negotiate a price to have it changed.

Regarding the condensation, most people have a corner in their house that gets a bit of black mould/mildew. Somewhere the air doesn't move much. You can imagine the eaves being a more extreme version of that as there are more paths to outside and less space for air to circulate. It's not a guaranteed problem but it can happen.

Sorry, are you saying condensation is more likely to happen the way he's done it or if he had taken the insulation all the way back into the eaves?

It seems an awful shame to have that Space & not be able to access it or use it.

I just don't understand why anyone would block it up with insulation & plasterboard.

 

[John D v2.0]

Condensation more likely if it goes back to the eaves.

Also you have to understand that the builder's priorities are different from yours, as he's doing the work and he's not going to live there. So for him there's no reason to make extra cupboards if it's not in the spec. If he added everything he thinks would be nice, his price would be higher, and he'd not get much work!

It's the architect's job to find out what you really want by asking all the questions, the builder is only going to build what he's told.

 

[Sunshine12]

I told him I wanted storage all around the edges..he's left one void for a cupboard and said I can crawl through.

Anyway, looks like any modifications will be at my cost.

Just trying to understand why he's gone with this 'cold' method. Is it just easier work for him or is it a genuinely better method than 'warm' cupboards?

If we do have it changed, what's the best way to prevent condensation?

Roof trusses are new with breather membrane beneath tiles.

Thanks

 

[John D v2.0]

Yes it's easier for him that way.
You could argue that cold storage isn't what you expected, but all normal lofts are cold so you might not get far. That's what your architect should have resolved before the builder even turned up, then there would have been no question what kind of storage and access.

Preventing condensation would be firstly avoiding gaps in the insulation during the build, and beyond that just the usual things like don't dry clothes inside and always open the windows to air the place every day, and use the extractor fan when you shower/cook.

 

[Doggit]

The loft should have been completely insulated right under the eaves so that heat from the rooms downstairs doesn't get lost into the eaves void. Then you get into the eaves being warm or cold. If he's put the insulation up the dwarf walls, then this stops the heat leaking into the cold, (or without any insulation in the joist space bloody cold) space.

If the joists have been insulated, then there shouldn't be any condensation on the underside of the tiles, especially if there is a breathable membrane. Not sure how extensive the job was done.

As to how many doors were installed for the cupboards, that'll be down to discussing things with the builder. In my loft conversion, I installed a lard opening in the centre of the dwarf wall, and that allowed me to put thing in either side.

 

[Sunshine12]

The loft should have been completely insulated right under the eaves so that heat from the rooms downstairs doesn't get lost into the eaves void. Then you get into the eaves being warm or cold. If he's put the insulation up the dwarf walls, then this stops the heat leaking into the cold, (or without any insulation in the joist space bloody cold) space.

If the joists have been insulated, then there shouldn't be any condensation on the underside of the tiles, especially if there is a breathable membrane. Not sure how extensive the job was done.

As to how many doors were installed for the cupboards, that'll be down to discussing things with the builder. In my loft conversion, I installed a lard opening in the centre of the dwarf wall, and that allowed me to put thing in either side.

Thanks for clarifying.

He is going to insulate right into the eaves (which will be the cupboards) now and remove the insulation from the dwarf walls to create cupboard doors. I am bearing the cost as the drawings just say 'storage cupboards' but no detail as to whether 'warm or cold'.

Thanks for advice

 

[John D v2.0]

Thanks for coming back to update us! We have builders extending at the moment and had some problems, and were only saved by the fact that we had detailed drawings. That's how I know so much! In a year's time you'll be glad you got them changed

 

[Doggit]

Just because the drawing said "storage", the builder should have discussed what was expected with you first; and as it was being used for storage, then insulation should go under the slates so the storage area is a warm one, as this reduces heat loss from the room. What did Building Control have to say about it. He's going to have to insulate the rear of the door this way.

But the insulation between the joists is not in question whatsoever, and if he was doing the job properly, the insulation should have gone right across the floor to stop the room below getting cold.

 

[theprinceofdarkness]

I think , if you regard the insulation, from your house cavity running up under the roof as one continuos layer like a tea pot cosy, then you are starting at the right place. if you put a sharp bend in it say behind your cupboards then thats OK, providing its still continous. But it must not have any holes in it, say where some thing, say the dormer window wood work sticks inside, the main open ridge room.
Frank