loft power

[dynamite26]

we have fitted 2 fluorescent lights and 2 twin sockets in our loft but our lights and sockets in the house run through junction boxes on a Radial circuit,do we just run cables from them for the lights and sockets for the loft as i think my dad has wired them wrong as he wired the lights and sockets through one junction box which i think is a 20A or 30A junction box to a junction box on the Radial circuit for the sockets.

Also is two-core and earth cable:solid conductors the correct wire to use to wire them up and do we use a 20A junction box for the lights and a 30A for the sockets as the lights and sockets are at each end of the loft as we need to use junction boxes to connect them up.

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moderator

please do not hi jack posts, this has now been split

 

[dingbat]

...we have fitted 2 fluorescent lights and 2 twin sockets in our loft but our lights and sockets in the house run through junction boxes on a Radial circuit,do we just run cables from them for the lights and sockets for the loft as i think my dad has wired them wrong as he wired the lights and sockets through one junction box which i think is a 20A or 30A junction box to a junction box on the Radial circuit for the sockets...

Aaargh! FFS get somebody in to inspect and sort out the mess. This sounds like the typical lash-up found in countless homes, carried out by people who know just enough to be dangerous. Seriously, if your dad has done what you describe there may be more at stake than whether or not you have power in your loft. (Or maybe I am over-reacting and he has, actually, used the correct sized cables, via the correct forms of protection and safely made off all the terminations in correctly rated enclosures... PLease call in an expert, if only for peace of mind.)

 

[dynamite26]

I think we have used the correct size wire as it's the same as the wire we have wired to all our sockets in the house but he wired the lights and sockets to the radial circuit used for the bedroom sockets,so really we need to wire the lights to the lighting circuit using a 20A junction box and leave the sockets wired the way they are to the radial circuit for the bedroom sockets but put a 30A junction box in.

From what i have read in the diy book we have and from the info i have found on the net thats how it should of been wired up,but they work ok the way they were wired up as it's been like that for afew yrs now and nothing has gone wrong.But i want them tobe wired up the way they should of been done the first time.

 

[dynamite26]

I have been readng the Electrical Regulations from this site http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_033480.hcsp

So we are ok as it's only 2 twin sockets and 2 lights in the loft and the work was done yrs ago but wired wrong so we don't need to tell our local authority Building Control Department.And i have got a clear idea how it should be wired now but i will get my dad to redo it has he wired it that way and that it's his house.

 

[Qedelec]

Dingbats words of caution are well founded. No one wishes to be alarmist but just because its worked for years does not mean it is safe.

Has anyone done a continuity test on the cpc (earth)?
Have you checked the insulation resistance of the circuit you are about to modify?
What is the earth loop impedance of the circuit?

Periodic inspection is recommended at intervals not exceeding 10 years for domestic property. Do you think this is stipulated because there are loads of electricians without any work?

There are 12,500 fires attributable to electrical faults every year, please be safe.

 

[dynamite26]

I think all are plug sockets upstairs are wired into the one junction box in the loft,also our house is a ex council house so the wiring is different to newer houses.I have been reading the diydoctor website which has some good info on wiring extra lights and sockets into existing circuits.

I know it ain't safe now i know from what i have read but thats how my dad wired it up i will get him to wire it up the way it should be done now i know how it should be.


I don't know what mean about these

Has anyone done a continuity test on the cpc (earth)?
Have you checked the insulation resistance of the circuit you are about to modify?
What is the earth loop impedance of the circuit?

as i ain't that much up on electrical things but we will get someone who is qualified to check it over.

 

[dynamite26]

I am going get my dad to just wire the sockets up through the light switch so when you click the switch when you get into the loft the sockets have power and the lights come on and wire the 2 fluorescent lights to plugs so they can be plugged into the sockets to make wiring more easier but i will have to get some wire for that.

 

[Qedelec]

I know it ain't safe now i know from what i have read but thats how my dad wired it up i will get him to wire it up the way it should be done now i know how it should be.

Would you go on a sailing trip with the captain of the Titanic?

I don't know what mean about these

Has anyone done a continuity test on the cpc (earth)?
Have you checked the insulation resistance of the circuit you are about to modify?
What is the earth loop impedance of the circuit?

These are the tests that will ensure your safety, ignore them at your peril.

as i ain't that much up on electrical things but we will get someone who is qualified to check it over.

Make sure he isnt accompanied by an indian called Tonto[/quote]

 

[dynamite26]

Well i found out the lights are wired up properly with the correct wire and junction box to the lighting circuit in the loft but my dad used the power from that to power the sockets,good job i didn't plug anything to big in them.So we are going to remove the plug sockets and use a 15m 13A 4 socket extension cable plugged into one of thesehttp://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=100332&ts=51018&id=15263from my bedroom instead of trying to wire the plug sockets up in the loft as it is to run a model railway in the loft.

So thank for help guys and i am very grateful for the help.

 

[Steve]

I am going get my dad to just wire the sockets up through the light switch so when you click the switch when you get into the loft the sockets have power and the lights come on and wire the 2 fluorescent lights to plugs so they can be plugged into the sockets to make wiring more easier but i will have to get some wire for that.

What i gather here is that you are planning to wire several 13A sockets through a 5 or 10 amp switch, to whatever sort of supply.

Why are you plugging the ridiculously long 4-way lead into an RCD? do you know what an RCD does? Do you have an RCD in the consumer unit?

 

[dynamite26]

If you read my last post you will know that we are not going to use the sockets in the loft as we are going to remove them from the loft as we don't want to wire them up now,so i am using a 15metre 13A 4 socket extension cable reel to plug into my bedroom to the loft with the RCD,we have MCB fitted in the consumer unit instead of the fuses.

I know what a RCD is use for but i want to be safe in the loft as i am having a model railway in the loft so i will be using power tools up there so if anything happens that will stop the power to the loft instead of me going all the way down stair to flick the MCB switch.

 

[dynamite26]

If we wired the sockets up we would have to take a spur from two socket in my bedroom to put power to the 2 in the loft and i didn't want to do that so thats why i am going to use the extension cable.

 

[Steve]

I know what a RCD is use for

no you dont.

so if anything happens that will stop the power to the loft instead of me going all the way down stair to flick the MCB switch.

proof

DEFINITION:
MCB: overcurrent protection device. If an overload occurs on the phase (live) conductor of a circuit, it disconnects. DOES NOT GUARD AGAINST ELECTRIC SHOCK (it takes 30mA or so to KILL, a 32A MCB trips instantly at something like 160A)
RCD: used to detect imbalance on neutral and live conductors of a circuit - if an imbalance occurs over a given current, it will trip. This imbalance can be caused by various things, including ELECTRIC SHOCK and earth leakage.
They are 2 completely different things, and having one will not mean the other does not trip under a given fault. Either may trip. They protect against different types of fault. Though by having both, you do have comprehensive protection.

If you read my last post you will know that we are not going to use the sockets in the loft as we are going to remove them from the loft

I know. I was merely implying that your suggestion was a bad idea, and should any gullible DIYers be reading this in a similar situation, that wiring sockets through light switches should not be attempted.

 

[dynamite26]

Also i will only have the RCD adaptor connected while i use my power tools in the loft but will remove it when i have finished using them.

 

[dynamite26]

Sorry i didn't explain properly in the post but the sockets weren't directly wired through the switch but through a junction box and the switch is wired to the junction box aswell as the lights,i knew it wasn't safe to use the sockets after i found out it wasn't safe and i wouldn't advise anyone to do it either as it is dangerous to do it and i wanted my dad to unwire them but he was alway busy with work so i hardly used the loft only to stick junk up there.And now i want to use the loft for my model railway so the sockets are going.

So this weekend i am getting my dad to unwire the sockets and remove them from the loft so i just have the lights wired up.


And i know what an RCD is used for as is stops an electric shock when using power tools, lawn mowers etc.

And i know that MCB only trip when there is an overload on the ciruit as it tripped when a bulb blew in the livingroom,i may not be up on much electrical things but i do know how to do somethings.

I know my dad shouldn't of wired it like that but thats how he did it and i wish he didn't and now he going to remove the sockets from the loft.