Log Burner - Hearth Really Required?

[phykell]

Hi,

I'm having a double-sided log burner installed in my kitchen diner and I've been told I need a hearth. The appliance will sit in the centre of the room at least 2+ metres away from any furnishing, etc. However, the flooring will be 22mm limestone tiling throughout so I don't see why I need a hearth as the tiling isn't combustible and I've seen log burners mounted on glass panels on top of wooden floors (I can't use glass as I'll probably step on it because the appliance is in the centre of the room). Fitting a hearth will probably result in more injuries - stubbed toes, bruised ankles, etc. !!!

I've read about having a "Visual Warning Area" but the appliance will be right in the centre of the room and there will be no carpets, rugs or furnishing anywhere near it.

It would make it so much easier to mount the burner directly on the tiles if possible - can anyone confirm if this is the case?

Thanks

 

[lostinthelight]

https://www.hetas.co.uk/hearth-boundaries/
you could also search for part “j” of the building regs

 

[tell80]

phykell,

The HETAS Regs are there for not just your safety but for whoever occupies the property after you.
Things change: furniture, rugs, and change of room use might be different in the future?
Why not use a HETAS installer - it safeguards & simplifies everything - and there's much more than the appliance itself: eg the flue and flue terminal

 

[Mr Chibs]

Limestone floor won’t catch fire, so like you, it seems slightly pointless, even if it is the regs.

I sank my last hearth flush to the floor, as I didn’t want it raised.

As for worrying about the next owner, you could remove the Stove when you Sell the house, let the new owner decide wether to bother or not.

 

[phykell]

phykell,

The HETAS Regs are there for not just your safety but for whoever occupies the property after you.
Things change: furniture, rugs, and change of room use might be different in the future?
Why not use a HETAS installer - it safeguards & simplifies everything - and there's much more than the appliance itself: eg the flue and flue terminal

I'm using a HETAS installer but I've provided the hearths (or my builder has); they're installing three log burners for me and I just have doubts about the requirement for a raised hearth in the middle of my room for the double sided appliance. It seems to me that it's unnecessary to have a raised hearth when the surrounding material is identical (limestone) and/or non-combustible.

 

[phykell]

Limestone floor won’t catch fire, so like you, it seems slightly pointless, even if it is the regs.

I sank my last hearth flush to the floor, as I didn’t want it raised.

As for worrying about the next owner, you could remove the Stove when you Sell the house, let the new owner decide wether to bother or not.

Agreed - it's just this visual warning area that remains an issue I think. Perhaps we should just have the hearth at the same level as with yours but use the black limestone to "indicate" the appliance's "working area".

 

[FiremanT]

I have not read all of the responses, so apologise of I am repeating. I am also in the post wine & beer stage of the evening so may return tomorrow to edit

I am gas, not SF, but did do the HEATAS course some years ago. I did not follow through with registration, as I believed that the SF resurgence was a "fad". We live and learn. Anyway, I thought there was no actual reg to insist on a raised front hearth for DF (There is for gas).

On a quick Google, i found this:

Where appliances are cooler on their outer surface and the risk of ash or ember spillage is minimal, such as independent heating boilers, some range cookers and some pellet fired appliances it is allowable to reduce the hearth dimensions (ref ADJ paragrpah 2.27) to those prescribed by the appliance manufacturer. In certain circumstances it may also be allowable to place heat sensitive items within this zone as the zone is really only intended as a free area for access for servicing purposes. In any such case it is essential to read and adhere to any appliance manufacturer’s recommendations.

In order to mark out this zone you may be required to take in to consideration aesthetic appearances as well as the constructional attributes of the building. this may or may not involve a change in level as suggested in ADJ paragraph 2.26 but it is imperative that any marking achieves the purpose described above and you can demonstrate you have taken the necessary steps to meet the regulations.

There is no such thing as "HETAS regs", HETAS only guide operatives to the statutory requirements, generally they rewrite the rules in more plain English

Part J, 2.26 suggests that a raised hearth is a "way of providing a visually apparent boundary", it is NOT a requirement:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ds/attachment_data/file/468872/ADJ_LOCKED.pdf

The early suggestion of a different coloured are, eg slate, is valid

 

[tell80]

FiremanT,
"There is no such thing as HETAS Regs" - fair enough but come on, you are splitting hairs here.
HETAS Regs is merely a short cut expression for the various Regs that cover the work that HETAS usually do.
Two simple words that can immediately put the householder or DIY'er in the picture of safety & diligence.

I enjoy your posts and always learn something from them.

 

[tell80]

OP,
has your floor construction been mentioned in the thread - is it solid or suspended?

 

[Nige F]

I enjoy your posts and always learn something from them.

as do many who read yours tell?

 

[bernardgreen]

I would be concerned about thermal expansion of the tiles under the log burner. This expansion would press the tiles outwards and against surrounding tiles.

The surrounding tiles at room temperature will not have expanded as much as those under the log burner so there would be nowhere for the expanding tiles to expand into.

EDIT Having a hearth between the tiles and the log burner means the hearth can expand and contract with much less thermal expansion stress on the tiles

 

[FiremanT]

FiremanT,
"There is no such thing as HETAS Regs" - fair enough but come on, you are splitting hairs here.
HETAS Regs is merely a short cut expression for the various Regs that cover the work that HETAS usually do.
Two simple words that can immediately put the householder or DIY'er in the picture of safety & diligence.

I enjoy your posts and always learn something from them.

Fair comment, tell, but really my point was that the rules are available for all to see. But how many know about Part J and instead rely on a HETAS installer to provide the info. That SHOULD be okay, but disinformation is rife. That is not a criticism just of HETAS, my fellow Gas Safe engineers are, as a body, just as bad. On reading Part J, it is clear that a raised hearth is NOT required, and I agree that, in that central location, it is probably a trip hazard.

I used to sell fireplaces etc - but could not fully embrace SF as I started as a Gas Service Engineer (rather than a plumber doing gas work). I used to sell stoves etc and pass the installation to another local retailer. I went out with him one evening to a job in a conservatory, for him to survey and quote. (My sale was subject to him being able to install) I was interested in how he could gat around the obvious difficult issues. I could not believe the garbage that I heard. Neither could my client (rapidly becoming an ex-client). Needless to say, the job went off, and I never sent him any more install leads

 

[FiremanT]

Limestone floor won’t catch fire, so like you, it seems slightly pointless, even if it is the regs.

I sank my last hearth flush to the floor, as I didn’t want it raised.

As for worrying about the next owner, you could remove the Stove when you Sell the house, let the new owner decide wether to bother or not.

No installer should complete a non compliant installation on the promise that the owner will not leave it. Nin compliant is non compliant regardless of ones opinion on the validity of particular rules. And there are some daft rules. I have a 30 year old range cooker that is not the current featherweights. Nevertheless, I had to fit a "stability" chain to stop it tipping over . Tipping is impossible, it is a mission just to move it !