LPG Nightmare....

[MikeyC]

I've recently bought my first house, which has LPG central heating, and is reasonably modern build at 1979 end trerrace. The LPG is something all new to me as i've only ever had electrical heating in anywhere i have lived...

When we first moved in, i found the thought of LPG fairly scary, so we got in an approved heating guy to check the system, which was more or less fine, only needing a thermocouple replacing, which was all ok.

The system we have runs on 4 orange 47kg bottles, on a 2 on, 2 queued system, and we pay about £37 a bottle.

Recently (just before xmas, with the weather coming colder), we found we've been going through two bottles every 2 weeks, which to me seems lots!

We have tried running the system on the timer, coming on the morning, switching off, then coming on again in the evening, and if we need extra heat in the lounge, there is a (hideous as it is ) glow worm real flame gas fire, the hot water is also heated in the same way, also on the timer.

After the first initial shock of using 4 bottles in 4 weeks, we altered the heating to be on all the time at 18 degrees, and the water still on the timer, and keeping well away from the glow worm fire! But we are still using it at the same rate! 2 weeks have passed, and the 2 bottles in service have indicated they are about empty, and the queued bottles are now in service too.

Is this basically what this kind of LPG system costs to heat a 3 bedroom house? My parents house costs about £100 a month to be electrically heated, including the normal electric usage, where i'm paying £148 for the gas alone!

Should i just shut it and deal with it?

Any help would be much appreciated! As i'm so lost with this, and i don't know anyone with a similar system!

Mike.....

 

[doitall]

Works out about £120 a month for bulk gas so yours would be about f=right.

bottles are about 75% cheaper in Europe.

My advice is rip it out, a ridiculas cost, oil would be half that as would electric

 

[MikeyC]

Works out about £120 a month for bulk gas so yours would be about f=right.

bottles are about 75% cheaper in Europe.

My advice is rip it out, a ridiculas cost, oil would be half that as would electric

Cheers for that, still seems lots to me! But i don't know

I guess with the radiators already there, the cheepest move would be to go onto heating oil?

 

[doitall]

Works out about £120 a month for bulk gas so yours would be about f=right.

bottles are about 75% cheaper in Europe.

My advice is rip it out, a ridiculas cost, oil would be half that as would electric

Cheers for that, still seems lots to me! But i don't know

I guess with the radiators already there, the cheepest move would be to go onto heating oil?

Couldn't agree more it will save you loads of dosh.

 

[MikeyC]

Works out about £120 a month for bulk gas so yours would be about f=right.

bottles are about 75% cheaper in Europe.

My advice is rip it out, a ridiculas cost, oil would be half that as would electric

Cheers for that, still seems lots to me! But i don't know

I guess with the radiators already there, the cheepest move would be to go onto heating oil?

Couldn't agree more it will save you loads of dosh.

So is it just a fact that the LPG burns less efficient?

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

4 orange 47kg bottles, on a 2 on, 2 queued system

AKA a '4 pack'

So is it just a fact that the LPG burns less efficient?

No it usually produces another 2% efficiency over nat gas. [well thats what Ravenheat say anyway] see www.boilers.org.uk and check some figures on efficiency

The big problem with LPG is it is twice as expensive as nat. gas
Electric can work out cheaper but not much and only if you use if you use night time tariffs and get the right supplier.
Oil is about 1.5 x the price of nat gas
Standard electricity is 3.5 x

Above is from memory and based on government figures in April 2005

My advice in order of preference: -

Check out www.est.org.uk for info about insulation, and other energy [money] saving ideas. You could get grants or financial help.

Consider oil but look at the payback time and the possibility of future price fluctuations.

If you can afford it consider new technology. Ground source heat pumps, solar etc. Again you can get grants.

It will possibly be worth your while to get a condensing lpg boiler but do your sums first

 

[Paul Barker]

Yes I agree the capital cost of installing a new oil system would take to long to pay back should price differentials (lpg/oil) remain status quo. They both come out of the same well.

Solar heating is definately worth a look this summer, ground source heat pumps imvho are not yet viable due to high up front capital cost and the fact that at present prices though they consume less electricery than a direct electric heat source said electricary is at least twice as expensive as yoru lpg.

Get a log burner for heat and scavenge pallets which are a waste product, and solar dhw system.

Top up both with existing lpg system.

Another option is gshr but generate the electricary with an old diesel engine running on waste chip fat, make sure that you recover the heat from the generator in fact there may be no further heatsource required.

AND finally, install storage cylinder in car, run engine coolant through primary coil, when you require it pump water into bath. Replenish store.

 

[bripl]

do away with the fourpack and have a bulk tank fitted [600kg min] if possible it is cheaper to buy gas in bulk.upgrade all your insulation and have decent controls added, a cust of mine done this a few years ago and made considerable savings reckons they are saving a tank fill a year.

 

[Paul Barker]

When you have had a bath leave the water in until it is cold. Better still bath the family in same water and then leave it in until it is cold.

 

[pannierstan]

do away with the fourpack and have a bulk tank fitted [600kg min] if possible it is cheaper to buy gas in bulk.upgrade all your insulation and have decent controls added, a cust of mine done this a few years ago and made considerable savings reckons they are saving a tank fill a year.

I agree with this.
You are using about the right amount of gas for what is probably an inefficient system. It is unlikely that you boiler is more than 70% efficient and with a pilot I would guess at less.
Go to a bulk tank and if possible look at a high efficiency boiler but make sure that the system is bought upto spec aswell which a good registered installer will do as its part of the energy efficiency regs.

Stan

 

[MikeyC]

Thanks so much for all the replies! This has really made me feel a bit better about what my options are!

I'd like to think i could have a bulk tank fitted, but i'm told they have to be a certain distance away from buildings, and i really don't have the space for it to be far enough away!

Fitting a log burner is something i've realistcally thought about! My pops has a joinery manufactures, so i'm pretty much sure there with be a plentyful supply of offcuts from there! So this could be the best solution, or more a part of it!

What sort of money would i be looking at getting an LPG condencing boiler fitted? Would it not be easier going over to heating oil if i was going to goto those lengths?

I've actually started looking at wind turbines! I live in a very windy part of the UK!

Thanks so much again, you are all stars!

Mike....

 

[Paul Barker]

You can buy an lpg combi which would be reliable for 459 including vat. Engineer would charge maybe 400 to 500 to fit it.

To have oil system fitted witn tak would be 2 to 3 grand.

I would get the wood burner organised before you buy a condensing lpg boiler, learn to heat one room most of the time. If you have a family it is better for social life of family to stay together in the heated main room. If you are alone no excuse for heating unused parts of house.

Get some hot water bottles and extra tog value quilts.

 

[MikeyC]

I did try shutting off one of the radiators in the spare room, as its a monster radiator, will easyly be 1200 wide if not wider... We'd gone out for a quick drink, then on return we found water coming down the wall in the room below as it was leaking out of the valve!

I really don't know anything about these kind of systems, so i just knocked it back on again and was fine

I'm still very lost with all of this! At least we've cavity insulation organised on a grant!

 

[Paul Barker]

Turn off the valve on the other side (may involve removing plastic cap and using a small adjustable spanner). If that leaks too, tighten up the gland nut which the shaft you turn to operate it fits through.

Iwarn you though that last night I went to an emergency call, poor bloke was up there in the bathroom with his thumb over the valve when I got there. Had to bung f/e tank and open vent, open drain off and change valve. Then the air vent on hot water leaked when I tried to get system working again, so undid that live applied ptfe and redid it, getting splattered in process.

In short plumbing throws curve balls at you, be prepared.