Marble fireplace insert

[Claireg]

Hi,

Hoping for some advice. I have a victorian house with original marble fireplace. When I got the house the centre of fireplace where the insert would be was boarded over. Upon removing this i found that at some point in the history of the house someone has removed the insert to leave grotty brick and crumbling plaster behind.
Ideally i'd like to put a new cast iron insert into the fireplace to restore it but as the fireplace is an arch and the inserts are square i can't see how to do this without removing the fireplace from the wall and then putting back.
Apparently moving a fireplace of this age is risky. Is there any tips or suggestions as to how i can get a new insert without damaging the fire surround.

Thanks

 

[Ihavenojob]

Are you going to be burning solid fuel in the fireplace ? If you are, the surround would need to be in sections. Fitting sections would probably mean the fireplace could stay in place.

 

[Claireg]

Sorry i maybe wasn't clear. I have the surround which is in place. See pic below. I want to somehow get a cast iron insert into the marble fireplace.
I'm not to fussed about operation- obviously i'd prefer it functioned but if that is a stretch too far and its purely decorative i'd settle for that

 

[Justin Passing]

WHat you have isn't original, so stick what you like into the original rectangular-ish hole. A fairly simple cast iron basket or something. Paint the rest black.


Victorians had things like this, but they would have graced rather fine houses. Is yours one of those?

 

[Claireg]

Yes my house is an 1850's townhouse with plenty original features including detailed cornicing. It was made listed in 1992 but unfortunately prior to that some of the features had been demolished or altered.
I believe it used to have a cast iron insert which was crudely removed and there are a few signs of damage to the marble already. Its listed but i have permission to restore which is what I hoped to do.
The internal bricks etc are in pretty poor condition and I would really like to get the room back to its former grandeur

 

[jacko555]

Can't see how you'd do it, without removing it from the wall. Recently had an original cast iron insert and new surround put in to replace a very, very broken one.

The inserts are heavy. Gonna be tricky or near impossible to cut one up and make it fit without looking butchered.

On the plus side, someone already removed the insert and surround, so it's doable. I'd imagine a fair degree of making good will be required after.

If you do get it moved, get it done properly. Kids have died from bodge jobs https://www.hse.gov.uk/safetybulletins/fireplace-surrounds.htm

Getting it done properly may be costly. I had various heatas engineers quote between £600 and £3k to do mine! Ended up with a heatas certificate and safe /useable fireplace.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi,
I may be very wrong, but I'm afraid I agree with Justin; to me the surround doesn't quite look right for the location. After reinstating a cast iron fireplace in my Victorian terrace, the brickwork in your picture doesn't look big enough to take a large enough cast iron insert,
You may be able to prove us wrong by lifting the carpet and seeing if there is a concrete bed for a hearth underneath and how big it is

The only way to fit a cast iron insert properly will be to remove the surround.

However if you really don't want to, you could get a smaller insert and add tiled panels to the sides, something like:

Or, slightly drastic, but cast iron is cuttable. If you can find an arch that will fit, the rectangle can be cut down with an angle grinder, plasma cutter, or a jigsaw.
A messy job though!

 

[JohnD]

the stone arch surround is modern repro. It is not original. I expect it will come apart into manageable pieces so you can remove it. If you can get it off without damage you could sell it on, or fit it in some other room.

it is not in keeping with your house.

 

[RandomGrinch]

the stone arch surround is modern repro. It is not original. I expect it will come apart into manageable pieces so you can remove it. If you can get it off without damage you could sell it on, or fit it in some other room.

it is not in keeping with your house.

I may be wrong, but I suspect it sits on the carpet!

 

[Claireg]

Hi,

Sorry for my complete ignorance but how can you tell its not in keeping with the house from one small picture. I have 2 marble fireplaces I inherited with the house the other one loos very similar to the one posted by Justin but in a darker marble.

If its not original I might have more scope for trial and error. I'd been told the fireplaces cornicing and window panelling were original and can't be altered due to listed status. I'm now terrified of damaging century old (or more) items. It sits under the carpet on what looks like cement or something and its bonded to a concrete hearth

I have found a cast iron arch which fits but i wondered if cut to size how it would be supported and stick to the unit. Thank you for the tile idea I hadn't considered that.

Also thank you for the warning regarding safety and children the thing weighs a ton so I'll make sure any removals/ reinstatement is done by professionals. If I can find one to take on the job. I had one guy out who looked at it and said was too much hassle and he didn't want the job. He said would be far too difficult. He may have been right...

Thanks again for all comments really helpful

 

[Claireg]

Also sorry I'm sleep deprived due to sick toddler so some of that might not make sense
I meant concrete bed for hearth.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Also sorry I'm sleep deprived due to sick toddler so some of that might not make sense
I meant concrete bed for hearth.

I too have a toddler that doesn't like to sleep (hence some pretty random posts on here in the middle of the night)!
It could very well be an original fireplace and to an extent, it shouldn't matter to us if it is or isn't!
It just looks slightly unusual to some of our eyes!

The problem is, if it is original and part of the listing, your choices are limited.
Perhaps similar properties in your area have been listed on Rightmove, a virtual nose in a neighbour's house may give you a definitive answer!
If you can find one, it may be worth calling in an expert for advice (finding and paying an expert for advice is often far easier than getting one in to do the work!).

 

[Claireg]

We're part of a terraced block of 6 victorian town houses and I've been in my 3 of the neighbours houses. Unfortunately they were mostly butchered prior to being listed in 1992. I myself have lovely 1980's aluminium windows as opposed to sash and case. A couple have been converted into flats and 2 are BnB's. Mine is only one of 2 which has been left as a house.
As you say I'm limited if listed (from talking to council i would be allowed to restore the insert but can't damage fireplace). I agree might be time to at least find out if its original or not.
Thank you so much for taking the time to provide advice

 

[SFK]

If this insert is bigger than the hole:
https://www.castfireplaces.co.uk/cr...MIz_fo0aW48wIVcfbVCh12iQQlEAQYASABEgKS1vD_BwE
I would get some thin 5mm plyboard and use it as a template.
Cut and sand the edges of the wood down so it fits/slides accuratly into the fireplace hole (I would use a hand powered 'coping saw' or a powered 'jig saw').
[Cut a hand hole in the centre of the template so you can pull it out if it sticks]


Then use this wood tempate to cut the edges off all four sides of the insert so it just slides into the hole. (jig saw with metal blade, metal files).
Slide it into the hole and sercure and fill edge gap with a thin bead of black silicon.

Then put something into the fire grate to stop people starting fires in it on cold nights.


You might want to consider putting in a small (one that does not stick out to far) hearth in first.

SFK

 

[SFK]

Forgot to add - there are plenty of old/rusty inserts on ebay that are cheaper than new.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=iron+fireplace&_osacat=0