Metal enclosure with 3rd amendment.

[JohnW2]

Not sure. Perhaps he was just reinforcing the old point that you can indeed work to one or the other (before the changeover date) but not cherry pick from both.

... but,as I've been saying, you don't need to "work to Amd3" or cherry pick in order to install a non-combustible CU - AFAIAA it's been allowed 'for ever', certainly from long before Amd3 was thought of!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Of course!

Somewhere in the regs is a statement to the effect that it is the minimum standard to work to but that standards can be exceeded if you wish.

 

[JohnW2]

OK, it means you can claim compliance with the Amendment before it comes into force.

You haven't actually been able to comply with Amendment 3 until recently. You could have fitted a CU in a non-combustible enclosure, but you couldn't claim compliance with the Amendment on the certificate.

Ah - that all makes sense, and would have been obvious to me if they had written just that. Had they written "...does not preclude claiming compliance..." , rather than just "...does not preclude compliance...", it would have been crystal clear - one word can make a big difference, particularly for dim-wits like me!

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

When you certify your work, you can now claim compliance to Amendment 3, even though the new requirement hasn't yet come into effect.
You could have installed a CU in a non-combustible enclosure buy YOU COULD NOT HAVE CLAIMED COMPLIANCE WITH AMENDMENT !

 

[JohnW2]

I would have thought that an isolator was a switchgear assembly.

Not according to the definition in 61439 it isn't.

Interesting - so what, in your opinion, is the scope of "consumer unit or similar switchgear assembly"?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

When you certify your work, you can now claim compliance to Amendment 3, even though the new requirement hasn't yet come into effect. You could have installed a CU in a non-combustible enclosure buy YOU COULD NOT HAVE CLAIMED COMPLIANCE WITH AMENDMENT !

As I've just written, I now fully understand, and it makes sense. As I said, if the note had talking about 'claiming compliance', rather than just 'compliance', I would not have needed to ask the question!

If, by some magical process, I knew about something that was going to be in "the 18th ed.", provided that it was not incompatible with current regs, I could 'comply' with it now, but obviously could not claim compliance with that edition before it had been published.

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

By Jove, I think he's got it!

 

[JohnW2]

At the start of the lecture he held up both old and new regs and said any new installation can until June be designed to either set but you can't mix and match. ... I did wonder what in the new is not permitted with the old?

Little, if anything I would imagine since (essentially 'safety') standards generally always move in the same direction - and it is always acceptable to exceed the standards required by the regs. However, as you say, once one has decided that one wants to claim compliance with the new regs, that has to be 'across the board', even during the transition period.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

By Jove, I think he's got it!

Indeed (thanks to you) - and I think you must have been typing your re-iteration of the explanation whilst I was typing mine that indicated that I had 'got it'! However, I still think it's a pity that they didn't write exactly what they meant, since I can't be the only dim-wit around!

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

From BS EN 61439-1:2011:
3.1.1
low-voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly
ASSEMBLY
combination of one or more low-voltage switching devices together with associated control,
measuring, signalling, protective, regulating equipment, with all the internal electrical and
mechanical interconnections and structural parts

 

[JohnW2]

From BS EN 61439-1:2011: 3.1.1 low-voltage switchgear and controlgear assembly ASSEMBLY
combination of one or more low-voltage switching devices together with associated control, measuring, signalling, protective, regulating equipment, with all the internal electrical and mechanical interconnections and structural parts

Thanks - so why does that preclude a simple isolator ("one or more low-voltage switching devices") with no other associated electrical parts?

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

It's not a "combination... together with..."

 

[JohnW2]

It's not a "combination... together with..."

Hmmm. It is obviously not necessary to have everything in that 'together with' list - so doesn't "combination of one or more low-voltage switching devices together with associated .... structural parts" count?

I'm not being awkward, I'm trying to learn how to interpret this new reg. Can you provide your opinion as to what (of things commonly found in domestic installations) would qualify as a "consumer unit or similar switchgear assembly"? Only CUs and 'mini-CUs', or what?

Kind Regards, John

 

[stillp]

I can't think of anything common in a domestic situation other than a CU that be considered an assembly.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Grid switch?