moto valves

[dotto]

hi all.
1)Does anyone know if Honeywell sell just the motor for their three port diverter valves on its own?
2) When you call 4 CH or HW and the lever of the motor moves, does that movement of the lever phisically swing the valve open to the other port or does that lever movement make a switch which then makes the valve swing to the other port?
3) When you call 4 CH or HW and you observe that the motor lever does not move, is that because the motor is faulty or is it because the valve is jammed so it prevents the movement of the lever? How do you assess that?
I went to a friend's and he has no HW but CH ok. When he calls 4 HW lever does not move. Boiler fires up, if valve does not move (3 port diverter) when calling 4 HW, should the HW from boiler go to the CH circuit instead? Funny enough radiators do not get hot under that circumstance. Why do you think is that? Thank you very much 4 clarifying those points!

 

[ollski]

For no hot water check the cylinder thermostat has 230v on the common and switches between normally open and closed as you operate the dial. The valve doesn't do anything for hot water, it always sits there unpowered.

 

[geoff@cetltd]

1)Does anyone know if Honeywell sell just the motor for their three port diverter valves on its own?

You ask for a synchron motor - £10ish


2) When you call 4 CH or HW and the lever of the motor moves, does that movement of the lever phisically swing the valve open to the other port or does that lever movement make a switch which then makes the valve swing to the other port?

The lever is only there for manual operation if the motor fails AFAIK
It moves the valve from closed (unenergised) to mid-position


3) When you call 4 CH or HW and you observe that the motor lever does not move, is that because the motor is faulty or is it because the valve is jammed so it prevents the movement of the lever? How do you assess that?

It depends - it could be lack of volts to the actuator, burned out microswitch, dead motor or jammed valve or a crack in the (normally) "D" shaped drive to the valve - it tries o turn and opens to jamb itself against the base plate

you should be able to remove the actuator head (2 screws ) and it lifts off, you should then be able to turn the valve manually and get an idea of how stiff it is

 

[Onetap]

hi all.
1)Does anyone know if Honeywell sell just the motor for their three port diverter valves on its own?
2) When you call 4 CH or HW and the lever of the motor moves, does that movement of the lever phisically swing the valve open to the other port or does that lever movement make a switch which then makes the valve swing to the other port?
3) When you call 4 CH or HW and you observe that the motor lever does not move, is that because the motor is faulty or is it because the valve is jammed so it prevents the movement of the lever? How do you assess that?
I went to a friend's and he has no HW but CH ok. When he calls 4 HW lever does not move. Boiler fires up, if valve does not move (3 port diverter) when calling 4 HW, should the HW from boiler go to the CH circuit instead? Funny enough radiators do not get hot under that circumstance. Why do you think is that? Thank you very much 4 clarifying those points!

1) Yes, you can get them from www.bes.ltd.uk
The motor alone or the whole actuator head (grey steel boxy bit)?
If just the motor, then it's not worth the effort of rebuilding it, IMHO, other components will be worn. Just put on a new valve head, or a whole new valve.

If the actuator head, then yes, but you may find there's not much difference between the price for the actuator & the price for a complete new valve with actuator.

2) the lever is for manual operation, if the motor/power fails or for air venting. The motor opens the valve & you'll feel the spring pressure comes off the lever so it can move freely. When the valve is fully open, it closes a microswitch which then powers up the boiler/pump/whatever.

3) Take the actuator off the valve. The exposed valve spindle should move freely.

The valve is open to the HW port with the power off, so you wouldn't expect it to move if there was a call for only HW. It would motor open if there was a call for CH OR CH&HW.

Taking the cover off the actuator exposes live terminals, you need to ensure it's all switched off or leave it for someone electrically competent.

 

[dotto]

hi all.
1)Does anyone know if Honeywell sell just the motor for their three port diverter valves on its own?
2) When you call 4 CH or HW and the lever of the motor moves, does that movement of the lever phisically swing the valve open to the other port or does that lever movement make a switch which then makes the valve swing to the other port?
3) When you call 4 CH or HW and you observe that the motor lever does not move, is that because the motor is faulty or is it because the valve is jammed so it prevents the movement of the lever? How do you assess that?
I went to a friend's and he has no HW but CH ok. When he calls 4 HW lever does not move. Boiler fires up, if valve does not move (3 port diverter) when calling 4 HW, should the HW from boiler go to the CH circuit instead? Funny enough radiators do not get hot under that circumstance. Why do you think is that? Thank you very much 4 clarifying those points!

1) Yes, you can get them from www.bes.ltd.uk
The motor alone or the whole actuator head (grey steel boxy bit)?
If just the motor, then it's not worth the effort of rebuilding it, IMHO, other components will be worn. Just put on a new valve head, or a whole new valve.

If the actuator head, then yes, but you may find there's not much difference between the price for the actuator & the price for a complete new valve with actuator.

2) the lever is for manual operation, if the motor/power fails or for air venting. The motor opens the valve & you'll feel the spring pressure comes off the lever so it can move freely. When the valve is fully open, it closes a microswitch which then powers up the boiler/pump/whatever.

3) Take the actuator off the valve. The exposed valve spindle should move freely.

The valve is open to the HW port with the power off, so you wouldn't expect it to move if there was a call for only HW. It would motor open if there was a call for CH OR CH&HW.

Taking the cover off the actuator exposes live terminals, you need to ensure it's all switched off or leave it for someone electrically competent.

Hi Onetap and thanks to everyone 4 your prompt replies!
Onetap,in point number 2,do you mean that when the valve is swinging open from one port to the other, offers no resistence but when is steady in
one position is the contrary? Also, in point number 3, are you saying that when there is no call for neither CH or HW the valve remains always open to HW and de-energised( also 3 port diverter valve)? And 1 more question: when trying to manually unjam the impeller of a pump, does it matter in what direction you turn it? Thank u all 4 your time.

 

[Agile]

It does not matter which direction you unjam a pump impeller but if its that tight then it will probably need to be replaced.

Tony

 

[Onetap]

Hi Onetap and thanks to everyone 4 your prompt replies!
Onetap,in point number 2,do you mean that when the valve is swinging open from one port to the other, offers no resistence but when is steady in
one position is the contrary? Also, in point number 3, are you saying that when there is no call for neither CH or HW the valve remains always open to HW and de-energised( also 3 port diverter valve)? And 1 more question: when trying to manually unjam the impeller of a pump, does it matter in what direction you turn it? Thank u all 4 your time.

Re 3 above)
Yes, the port from the pump is always open AND one or both of the other ports is open. If the power is off, the HW port is open. If the power fails, the valve will spring-return to the HW port open position.

Re 2 above)
Not quite sure what you mean. The valve can be opened by the motor or by the manual lever and the motor/lever has to work against the spring to open the valve.

If you open the valve with the lever, you will hear the gears whirring the motor around and you will feel the spring pressure opposing the lever movement. If you release the lever, the spring will drive the valve shut. Your valve &/or actuator may be broken, so it may not work like this.

If the valve has been opened by the electric motor, the spring will have been compressed by the motor and you will be able to move the lever without feeling any resistance.



Agree with Tony re the pump. The impeller should spin freely (power off) in either direction. Domestic pumps are 'canned rotor'/glandless types; these have small clearances between the rotor and the casing to allow the magnetic field to rotate the rotor. The pump can be jammed by small particles in the water getting stuck between casing and rotor. If there's a persistent problem with the rotor jamming, it may indicate a corrosion problem.

Bigger comercial pumps usually have a separate motor and are less prone to jamming. However they need a gland or seal on the pump shaft and are more prone to leaks.

 

[dotto]

Hi Onetap and thanks to everyone 4 your prompt replies!
Onetap,in point number 2,do you mean that when the valve is swinging open from one port to the other, offers no resistence but when is steady in
one position is the contrary? Also, in point number 3, are you saying that when there is no call for neither CH or HW the valve remains always open to HW and de-energised( also 3 port diverter valve)? And 1 more question: when trying to manually unjam the impeller of a pump, does it matter in what direction you turn it? Thank u all 4 your time.

Re 3 above)
Yes, the port from the pump is always open AND one or both of the other ports is open. If the power is off, the HW port is open. If the power fails, the valve will spring-return to the HW port open position.

Re 2 above)
Not quite sure what you mean. The valve can be opened by the motor or by the manual lever and the motor/lever has to work against the spring to open the valve.

If you open the valve with the lever, you will hear the gears whirring the motor around and you will feel the spring pressure opposing the lever movement. If you release the lever, the spring will drive the valve shut. Your valve &/or actuator may be broken, so it may not work like this.

If the valve has been opened by the electric motor, the spring will have been compressed by the motor and you will be able to move the lever without feeling any resistance.



Agree with Tony re the pump. The impeller should spin freely (power off) in either direction. Domestic pumps are 'canned rotor'/glandless types; these have small clearances between the rotor and the casing to allow the magnetic field to rotate the rotor. The pump can be jammed by small particles in the water getting stuck between casing and rotor. If there's a persistent problem with the rotor jamming, it may indicate a corrosion problem.

Bigger comercial pumps usually have a separate motor and are less prone to jamming. However they need a gland or seal on the pump shaft and are more prone to leaks.

Thank u all 4taking the time to clarify these points. One last thing though!!
Raden, just made a difference between the actuator and the motor. I just thought they were one thing. 1)What is the difference between the two?
2) Which of the two do you normally replace then?
3) How much does it cost? Thank u so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[geoff@cetltd]

Raden, just made a difference between the actuator and the motor. I just thought they were one thing. 1)What is the difference between the two?
2) Which of the two do you normally replace then?

The motor which drives the actuator head can be purchased separately (if that's the problem) it drives the actuator and is significantly cheaper than the complete head

You normally replace what's broken ... that's how you get things working again

 

[Softus]

The motor which drives the actuator head can be purchased separately (if that's the problem) it drives the actuator and is significantly cheaper than the complete head

Hm, cheaper when the rest of the powerhead is in good condition, otherwise the customer will be paying for yet another callout in the near future - this won't concern you if you're not a tradesman of course.

You normally replace what's broken ...

... and/or what's about to break.

 

[geoff@cetltd]

And what other parts of an actuator head are likely to be about to die ?

I used to repair these things in the dark days, so think carefully before you answer

occasionally microswitches

I think the OP might actually do it himself - it's hardly a difficult job

 

[Onetap]

Thank u all 4taking the time to clarify these points. One last thing though!!
Raden, just made a difference between the actuator and the motor. I just thought they were one thing. 1)What is the difference between the two?
2) Which of the two do you normally replace then?
3) How much does it cost? Thank u so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All available from BES at the link above.
The page you want is here;
http://bes.co.uk/products/112.asp

Replacement synchronous motor at the top of the page. This is one component in the 'Replacement Head' (I call them actuators) further down.

I think the OP might actually do it himself - it's hardly a difficult job

Not difficult, but the degree of difficulty depends on how much previous experience you have in dismantling and repairing comparable devices.

If you haven't done much of this, I'd recommend buying a replacement head (if you're sure the valve is OK) and then repairing the old one as a spare, if it's worth the effort. Note that there are different types of replacement heads, so get the right one.

 

[Softus]

And what other parts of an actuator head are likely to be about to die ?

Mechanical components don't "die"

I used to repair these things in the dark days, so think carefully before you answer

I always think carefully about everything. You'd do well to do the same.

occasionally microswitches

This orphaned fragment of a sentence appears to be the answer to your earlier question.

 

[geoff@cetltd]

what a pointless reply

you don't seem to have an intelligent answer

Synchron motor failure is by far the most common problem with diverter valves. If they weren't, why do CH merchants stock them and not e.g. microswitches ?

 

[Softus]

what a pointless reply

And yet you felt the need to respond to it.

you don't seem to have an intelligent answer

Alas, you being unable to perceive the intelligence in my answer is not the same thing at all as there being an absence of intelligence.

Synchron motor failure is by far the most common problem with diverter valves. If they weren't, why do CH merchants stock them and not e.g. microswitches ?

I didn't say, or imply, that synchron motors aren't common points of failure. As for why your local stockist doesn't stock a parcicular component, you'll have to ask them that question.

You're going off on a wild tangent (again); I'm quite surprised that you haven't dragged CORGI into this yet.