Moving a meter and DNO supply on a back board.

[mrjoe]

Hi all,

I've read a couple of threads on DIYnot about moving meters/supplies and the need (legally or otherwise) to get you supplier/DNO to do it. At the risk of starting a heated debate about health and safety and the electricity laws, I have a question...

The attached photo shows my meter and the main incoming supply coming in bottom right. The consumer unit is to the left and this will have to be replaced/rewired (not the job in question). As you can see the whole lot is located on a back board.

I want to remove the wall that this lot are on as part of a remodel.

My question is: Can I unscrew the backboard and move the lot onto the adjacent wall. As this is in the direction of the incomer all this would mean is bending the main incomer through 90deg but interns of actual connections all the changes would be on my side of the meter.

Is that OK or do I (officially) still need to get the DNO involved?

Thanks in advance, Joe

Untitled

• mrjoe
• 5 Sep 2013
• 1

PS, I'm getting of of my mates who has his Part P to do the consumer unit, just want some steer before a go suggesting things....

 

[davelx]

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TRY to move that very old and apparently leaky cutout, which probably has a very old lead sheathed cable with a high probability of breakdown if you attempt to turn it.

Contact your DNO emergency line and explain to them that you have a very old iron cut-out with pitch leaking out of it. Is it warm to the touch when you have a heavy load connected? if so tell them - in fact tell them you thnk it gets warm when you are using a heavy load.

With a bit of luck they will send someone out quickly to replace it - at that point you can make them a cup of tea, get out the choccy biscuits and ask if they can put it on the other wall - they'll have to extend the tails from the new position to the meter though. However, there is a risk that this will not be a simple job and they may want to move the whole cutout and meter to an externally accessible box.

(Is this a serious post??)

You'll also need your electricity supplier to move the meter once the cut-out has been moved, and then an electrician to relocate other stuff - you'll need the service fuse in the cut-out pulled to do this, so some planning and coordination will be needed.

The wiring to that cutout looks strange - the tails coming out of the top appear to go directly to that small CU with the plug in MCB, and not via the meter. Also where does the other set of tails exiting the left of the cut-out go? All that will need extending/moving too!

 

[Robin0577]

You already know it's illegal so I won't bore you further with that one.


From a personal safety point of view, NO ****ING WAY!!!! I wouldn't touch that thing with a 10 foot, well insulated, fireproof bargepole! That old cable will very likely crack if it's moved, especially if bent tightly, with spectacular results.

It might, under certain circumstances be "safe-ish" to move a modern plastic cut-out, fed with modern cable (of course still illegal), but moving something as old as that is just asking for a face full of molten metal.

Even the DNO guys will most likely want to replace the cable rather than try to bend it.

 

[mrjoe]

Thanks for that, now I feel suitably reprimanded for even considering it!

Yes it is a serious post, sorry I'm not a sparky, that's why I'm on here.

Just spoke to Northern Powergrid and explained the situation, they said they would send someone out ASAP to have a look, and would definitely change the cut-out free of charge. When I asked about moving it he said it's normally a chargeable service but depending of the circumstances the guy who comes out maybe happy to do it as part of the job. If not he could at the very least give advice on the condition of the incoming cable. He also said, once the new cut-out has been fitted my supplier can move it up to a metre (assuming he thinks it's safe, which by the sounds of it he wouldn't), but anything over a metre and Northern Powergrid have to do it.

He said, if I had concerns about the safety of the incoming cable (which I do now!) I should raise that with the guy who comes to change the cut-out. If he thinks its unsafe they may need to change it. "sound like a big job" I said, "it depends" he said.

Worst case scenario (and lets face it, most likely) Northern Powergrid say the cable is not unsafe so they wont change it free of change but if I want to move it in anyway it would need changing, at my expense. At which point it would probably be cost prohibitive to do anything with it!

Northern Powergrid wanting to more it all to an external box is the best case scenario, as long as they're paying!!!

Back to the meter. From what I've gathered in other threads, the law talks about tampering with connection but doesn't mention physical location....

Still waiting to get the keys as its not actually my house yet, then first stop Northern Powergrid, I'm very interested to hear what they say, but given what you are both saying, I fear it might not be good news.

Thanks again,

Joe

 

[JohnW2]

He also said, once the new cut-out has been fitted my supplier can move it up to a metre (assuming he thinks it's safe, which by the sounds of it he wouldn't), but anything over a metre and Northern Powergrid have to do it.

If you think the 'it' you mention is the cutout, then I think there's some misunderstanding there - I suspect that he was probably talking about the meter. There's no way that anyone other than the DNO will (or could, or would be allowed to) move the cutout, even 1 metre (there won't be any significant 'spare cable' on the DNO side of the cutout, anyway!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[mrjoe]

It's possible I got the wrong end of the stick but I'm sure he was talking about when they come out to move the meter they could also move the cut-out. Now you mention it, it does seam a bit far fetched, can't imagine they would be remotely interested in doing something so potentially dangerous to move an asset that isn't even theirs to move. Even if they would, I'm sure they'd charge a small fortune!

The existing location is at head hight and at least 2m from the nearest external wall so there must be some "spare cable" somewhere as long as it moves in the right direction, ie down and towards to outside wall. But before you all jump in and ridicule me, no, I won't be digging around in the plaster to try and find where it goes, so I guess that doesn't help me anyway....

 

[Taylortwocities]

Do let us know what Northern Powergrid say when they have had a peek.!

 

[SimonH2]

Of course, the DNO engineer may decide the cable needs shortening to do a proper job of reterminating it - which coincidentally happens to be in the direction you'd like the board moving ?

Of course, rather than moving the meter, at some point it will be screwed to a piece of wood all on it's own. If you moved that board before the new cutout got screwed to it, no-one would know I cannot imagine the supplier/meter operator being even remotely interested as long as they can still read it and it's still mounted properly.

Chosen a sparky yet for the upcoming works ? If so then it might be worth talking to him about options.
Options that come to mind include having a set of "Henleys" to hand and putting the tails into those as the DNO moves the board. Or asking for an isolating switch to be fitted - but I think it's the supplier rather than DNO that does that. I assume you could have your own fitted if you supply it - the DNO guy will just put the meter tails into it as he reconnects everything.

As it is, I expect the DNO guy will have the terminal cover off the meter as he'll be re-doing the connections to the cutout - and then you could fit new tails (while he's distracted with a fresh cuppa).

 

[efiste2]

Im afraid I dont have the safety bulletin to hand to share with you but only last month a cable jointer sadly lost his life from a flashover whilst working on a live service termination (cut-out).

I dont know the exact details so I wont post any, but I can only echo the dangers of tampering with the DNO incomer to properties, even if you think it looks as safe as "houses".

Most of the regulars on here are fully aware of just how much potential energy is waiting at a DNO service and have the experience to stay away unless they are suitably trained and experienced

Two Cable Jointers from my DNO were sacked last month for working on a known "problem" cutout.....thats how serious its taken at the DNO end.
SO please leave it to the DNO people to do the work.

 

[Bolty]

I think this is a link to the recent fatality.

http://www.northernpowergrid.com/som_download.cfm?t=media:documentmedia&i=1676&p=file

We were informed about this at work and the message reinforced that cast iron cut outs are to be reported and left alone.

People who think that i'll just "move the cut out slightly" should take heed.

tragic

Bolty

 

[westie101]

Deleted

 

[mrjoe]

It's been a while but it's finally all sorted and I thought after all your useful advise I should let you know how it went.

Called Northern Power Grid and they sent someone out the next day, the guy took the front off the box, tighten all the connections and reported it to be replaced as scheduled work, as "not unsafe but out of date".

Got a letter a couple of weeks later from a subcontractor of NPG who had been contracted to do the change.

Arranged for them to come round on a day when I had my sparky on standby (to run new tails if necessary).

Two guys came round, one who was clearly very competent and a helper. I explained my intention to knock the wall down and he was happy to move the position, onto the adjacent wall and a meter or so lower, so i can conceal in a kitchen unit. The cable ran vertically down the corner of the room and was buried in the plaster/render.

He chiseled out either side of it, pulled it free of the wall then cut into it lower down, shield, lead outer, paper and then the individual cores one at a time. Put temporary caps on the two cores then mounted the new back board, new cutout and terminated. Also moved meter onto new backboard.

He even ran new tails up to temporary termination blocks to reconnect connected the shower and consumer unit.

Did the main cable work live, which was interesting to watch. Had I not know, I would never have thought it was live (apart from the extra PPE). He had clearly done similar a thousand times before and totally unphased.

Tried giving him twenty quid for his troubles went he was leaving, as he had gone above and beyond but he wouldn't have any of it.

Think I might have dropped lucky getting someone so good. Happy days

 

[Taylortwocities]

He had clearly done similar a thousand times before and totally unphased.

Thats really funny.


PS I'm glad you got a tame one and that it's all worked out for you.

 

[m5kgk]

He had clearly done similar a thousand times before and totally unphased.

Thats really funny.


PS I'm glad you got a tame one and that it's all worked out for you.

Yes, I spotted that and burst out laughing also!