Moving the main fuse / meter

[pjriest]

Hi All,

I recently embarked on the torturous road of having my main meter and fuse moved.

1) How things are:
The cable runs (I think) all the way from the road, into my property. Under my driveway, under the entire length of my house and comes up to the main fuse JUST INSIDE a wall to the rear of my house.

2) What I want:
I want the meter to be moved to the OUTSIDE of the same wall that it is on. It comes up exactly where the kitchen sink is going to go! It's a distance of about 40 cm.

3) What they say:
They say that the law REQUIRES them to dig up the entire length of the house all the way to the road and replace the old cable. There is no way to extend it by 40 cm. I would have to pay for them to do some of this, and I would have to incur the rest of the cost.

When I argued that this is simply crazy and that they should be able to extend the cable (there may even be enough slack!!) -- they said it was the law.

Now I have no doubt that they may have an OFGEM mandate to update their lines, but trying to do that by making excuses in response to a simple job by me (and asking me to pay for it) seems unfair. Their position is that ANY movement of the meter must ALWAYS be done by replacing the entire line (confirmed multiple times!). I asked what would happen if i wanted to move the meter again just ONE week after doing the job they'd proposed. 'The entire cable would have to be replaced again' was the answer. That cannot be right!!

It's possible to just have the meter in FRONT of the house -- leaving the old cable detached under the house. Still, that would incur a LOT more cost than just doing a simple 40cm extension.

I've tried asking OFGEM about their policies, but just can't get through to a person. I have left messages and nothing. Nobody has called me back. Useless.

So my question is, which part of the LAW or OFGEM rules specifies that

1) The entire cable from the road must be replaced and that the cable can not be extended.

2) I must incur the cost for that work specifically.

Thanks for your help. Any links / proper documentation etc would be great.

 

[westie101]

They say that the law REQUIRES them to dig up the entire length of the house all the way to the road and replace the old cable

No, no law that says that! There could be internal rules that suggest that they do not want a joint on your property.

However
1/ to extend the cable will require a joint on it which will need to be outside the building so that could only be at the front with new cable to the new position.
2/ it is not possible to remove the existing cut-out, push the cable through a wall in the hope it will reach and re-terminate it. All work is generally done live (to prevent switching off the power to the whole street) and there is no live technique to do this.
3/ Yes a box at the front would work with a short piece into it from a joint below. You would need to run a sub-main through the house with a swtch fuse at the meter end to control it.

 

[JohnD]

It might be that the cable is very old, or undersized, or corroded, or your house has been divided or extended.

Is it?

You could try entertaining yourself by asking which law this is, so you can read and understand it.

When dealing with utility companies it is always best to write a short, clear, businesslike letter rather than try a phone call.

Don't pad it out with history or opinions or grumbles.

 

[pjriest]

No, no law that says that! There could be internal rules that suggest that they do not want a joint on your property.

Thanks. It made no sense - so thanks for confirming. I guess the next time they tell me that, I will ask THEM to point me at the law / ofgem policy. So if it's an internal policy, would it be reasonable for them to pay for this?

1/ to extend the cable will require a joint on it which will need to be outside the building so that could only be at the front with new cable to the new position.

So you are saying the problem is that the joint cannot be under the house? Is that a hard and fast rules -- are there any additional sources please?

2/ it is not possible to remove the existing cut-out, push the cable through a wall in the hope it will reach and re-terminate it. All work is generally done live (to prevent switching off the power to the whole street) and there is no live technique to do this.

There is no technique to make sure they don't electrocute themselves? I've seen men handle completely live overhead wires with special clothing. If anyone should be equipped to do this, it's these companies. Anyway, is this your opinion, or is that a statement of fact?

3/ Yes a box at the front would work with a short piece into it from a joint below. You would need to run a sub-main through the house with a swtch fuse at the meter end to control it.

1. Box at the front has one issue though. Currently the fusebox is near the back of the house. If i move the main cable to the front of the house, i'd need to run another wire from there to somewhere near where the current fusebox is in order to reduce rewiring. Maybe that's not too hard a thing to do though.

2. So can they create a joint in front of the house and come up to the wall *without* digging up all the way to the road?

Any actual sources would be appreciated. It's hard to just tell the guy he's wrong without backup. Again though, perhaps that onus should be on them.

Regards.

 

[pjriest]

It might be that the cable is very old, or undersized, or corroded, or your house has been divided or extended.

Is it?

You could try entertaining yourself by asking which law this is, so you can read and understand it.

When dealing with utility companies it is always best to write a short, clear, businesslike letter rather than try a phone call.

Don't pad it out with history or opinions or grumbles.

Thanks man.

House is old. I don't know about the cable. Nobody came to visit / survey. All estimates etc were done by email. They are also now saying i should just pay them, then they will send a surveyor, and If i am not happy i can get a refund!

 

[JohnD]

so write them a letter.

 

[bernardgreen]

They are also now saying i should just pay them, then they will send a surveyor, and If i am not happy i can get a refund!

The quote for my new supply was over £3000 based on estimates. I paid it and the surveyor arrived, he made a suggestion which involved changing the location of the connection to the street cable as it "might save a few pennies". It did, I got a refund of just over £2000.

While that change of joint location may not be applicable in your case it does show that the DNO's tend to be helpful rather than money grabbing.

 

[pjriest]

so write them a letter.

I think I will do that. Just wondering if my position would be reasonable:

a) I should pay for creating the elbow where the main line 'hits' my house and to put the meter there.

b) I should not have to pay for the replacement of the entire line all the way to the street. If they have a mandate to do that, then they should incur that cost.

?

 

[pjriest]

They are also now saying i should just pay them, then they will send a surveyor, and If i am not happy i can get a refund!

The quote for my new supply was over £3000 based on estimates. I paid it and the surveyor arrived, he made a suggestion which involved changing the location of the connection to the street cable as it "might save a few pennies". It did, I got a refund of just over £2000.

While that change of joint location may not be applicable in your case it does show that the DNO's tend to be helpful rather than money grabbing.

I am 100% sure the person I spoke with was wrong on some of his facts, but did seem reasonable. He suggested I pay and then discuss with the surveyor. The only point of me coming here is to be prepared. In particular it seems illogical for me to have to foot the bill for them replacing the entire line (regardless of where the meter ends up going -- looking likely to be the front of the house). It seems that this isn't actually mandated, or at least, not at my expense. can someone please confirm I am not going mad and this makes sense !

 

[JohnD]

In your first letter, just describe what you want done, and ask what the work will entail and what it will cost.

When they have stated their position in writing, you can, if you wish, query or challenge it.

 

[westie101]

So you are saying the problem is that the joint cannot be under the house? Is that a hard and fast rules -- are there any additional sources please?

Correct as it provides access problems in case of fault, if under a suspended floor there is insufficient space to safely work live.

There is no technique to make sure they don't electrocute themselves?

The percieved risk of doing this on a live cable is too great, working on a live cable is hugely different to an overhead line owing to the close proximity of earthed metal work.

Strictly speaking within the Electricity at Work Regulations no one is allowed to work on live equipment. As an industry we have to show that it is reasonable for us to do so and that we control the risks very carefully. This is one case where we cannot so do't do it.

So can they create a joint in front of the house and come up to the wall *without* digging up all the way to the road?

Yes they always could, it just appears that the DNO you are with does not wish to do so and is giving excuses. Don't forget that you are probably talking to a clerical assistant in a call centre who has little technical knowledge.

The problem with sources is that they will all be in internal documentation that is not available outside the individual companies. I can only refer to what my employer does so don't have complete knowledge of other's proceedures. Some of the decisions also come down to "best engineering practice", though not written, down experiance over the years has shown us the pitfalls of some work so we do not permit it to be done.

 

[dhutch]

Have you considered not moving it....?

 

[pjriest]

Have you considered not moving it....?

It's where my WIFE wants the kitchen sink! Not to the left, or the right, or the wall opposite -- RIGHT THERE. I should get her to move it.

 

[JohnW2]

Have you considered not moving it....?

It's where my WIFE wants the kitchen sink! Not to the left, or the right, or the wall opposite -- RIGHT THERE. I should get her to move it.

It sounds as if some flowers/chocolates/holiday might be the best way forward - it would presumably require only a slight movement of the sink for the cutout/meter to be in a probably acceptable place (e.g. a cupboard)

I'm tempted to add that it probably wouldn't be the first (or last) cutout/meter to be positioned under a kitchen sink, although I very much doubt that such would be consdiered acceptable!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

get new wife.