My incoming water main

[dormermike]

Hello

My incoming water main from the street is a blue plastic pipe.

I had a heating engineer in to give a quote for a new boiler and he said that because the incoming pipe is blue, it must be a 20mm so we should upgrade the copper pipe coming out of the black thing to 22mm - is that correct and can that black thing accept a 22mm pipe?

Also i'm not sure of the name of the black thing but i'm trying to work out how it attaches to the pipe beneath the floor level - would it be PVC glued, or just a compression fit?

Reason for asking, i'm trying to trace a dampness on the other side of that wall and there is also a "ring" of salts around the incoming main and i'm wondering if somehow its leaking beneath the screed level. Does it look like that, or ok? The heating guy didn't mention anything about that.

Thanks

 

[terryplumb]

It's a compression fitting joining the pipe below to the copper pipe above ,and it shouldn't be surrounded / buried in concrete.
Are you converting to a combi boiler from a conventional boiler and hot water cylinder ?
Is the advice to rip out all 15mm pipe and replace with 22mm ,or a certain section ?

 

[dormermike]

No, system boiler for system boiler and unvented cylinder, from current open vent Y plan.

Just been googling, i think its called a transition fitting and can accept 15-21mm pipes.

The suggestion was to increase the incoming copper side of the main from 15mm (as shown) to 22mm to the unvented cylinder which is going to be fitted, as the "other side" of that are already 22mm pipes internally for hot water.

Yes does seem odd that its buried. Might it be leaking a little too..

 

[Gasguru]

Get yourself another heating "engineer", only by measuring static/dynamic water pressures and flow rates can you determine whether the incoming service pipework is sufficient.
My own place has an imperial copper 1/2 main but with 5 bar static the flowrate is ample at say 1 bar dynamic (the pressure when water is flowing).

 

[Madrab]

The 'black' thing is a Philmac universal transition coupler BTW Easy enough to knock some of that concrete out around the coupler and check if it's leaking but TBH it would be darker and damp usually if it was. You may find that the current staining has just been condensation from the cold pipe.

As suggested, the engineer should be taking pressure and flow readings before he recommends anything.

 

[dormermike]

Thanks Guys,

BTW FWIW i've had 5 people around including 2 heat geeks

Nobody has asked about occupants and number of bedrooms until i've volunteered it.
Nobody has looked at existing rads
Nobody has done a heat loss calc.
3 have done a flow test, including the two heat geeks, but one of those guys declared the flow "rubbish" at 14l but didn't notice the restrictor on the outdoor tap that he did the flow test from.
Only 1 has done a water pressure test and it wasnt the heat geeks.

Recommendations range from 200L ("plenty") to 250L for the tank, and 18kw to 35kw ("because of heat loss" - long pipes apparently) for the boiler.

 

[dormermike]

The 'black' thing is a Philmac universal transition coupler BTW Easy enough to knock some of that concrete out around the coupler and check if it's leaking but TBH it would be darker and damp usually if it was. You may find that the current staining has just been condensation from the cold pipe.

As suggested, the engineer should be taking pressure and flow readings before he recommends anything.

Thanks, condensation is a good call.

 

[dormermike]

Also vaillant or worcester bosch for system boilers?

I had settled on a Vaillant ecotec plus 625 System boiler but the latest heating guy said he only fits the "pure" ones. I can't find much sensible info on what the actual differences are.

Also is weather compensation needed? I had one quote that said yes its required, but the last two have said dont worry about it, the boilers modulate down without it as they are "really clever".

 

[MNW67]

I had settled on a Vaillant ecotec plus 625 System boiler but the latest heating guy said he only fits the "pure" ones. I can't find much sensible info on what the actual differences are.

One definite difference is the heat exchanger on the Plus is stainless steel but on the Pure it is aluminium. As regards the rest I don't know. I've heard some say the Pure is a rebadged Glow Worm and the Plus is a "proper" Vaillant. No idea if that is true!

 

[Madrab]

Also vaillant or worcester bosch for system boilers?

Unfortunately you will get a large number of different opinions on here about what boiler to go for, personally I'd recommend an Intergas. Vaillant are well made boilers but find they can be finicky/twitchy and really need their own smart controls. Don't ask about WB

 

[MNW67]

Unfortunately you will get a large number of different opinions on here about what boiler to go for, personally I'd recommend an Intergas.

I'm thinking of Intergas myself. A couple of recent comments say they need a seal replacing every year or two. How much does that add to servicing cost?

 

[Madrab]

A couple of recent comments say they need a seal replacing every year or two. How much does that add to servicing cost?

For the new black Viton seals it is now every 4 years, since April 22 as per IG's update. All the old red seals should have been replaced by now. For anyone with an older IG then it should have a sticker on the boiler stating that the seal's been changed and when, (red to black), if not then it should be done as ASAP.

New service procedure - Intergas Heating

In February we contacted you about our new service procedure regarding the replacement of every red front plate seal with a Viton black seal, and that the black seal must subsequently be changed every two years. Now we’d like to clarify the service procedure which affects the other seals. These...

www.intergasheating.co.uk

It's part of a good service on the IG's where the HEX is opened up and cleaned properly. The seals are from ~£12 up to ~£20 for the larger ones but you can get a full 4yr service kit for about £25-£30

 

[JohnD]

Is there a number stamped on the side of that brass stopcock? To my eye it looks bigger than 15mm. You might have to hold your phone or camera behind the pipe.

 

[Mike13]

I have had vaillant UK tell me that Fernox DS-40 will damage the o-rings, sounds like they are using the wrong rubber

 

[dormermike]

The 'black' thing is a Philmac universal transition coupler BTW Easy enough to knock some of that concrete out around the coupler and check if it's leaking but TBH it would be darker and damp usually if it was. You may find that the current staining has just been condensation from the cold pipe.

As suggested, the engineer should be taking pressure and flow readings before he recommends anything.

Hi madrab, thanks.

So I'm only getting 15Lpm at the moment. If I replace that 15mm with a 21 to 22mm pipe will I get more flow?

I've been advised to get a unvented unistor cylinder but having taken it upon myself to read the specs they recommend 25lpm flow rate. My incoming main is a blue plastic pipe but I don't know what size. Is it possible the 15mm or even the stop tap is reducing flow?

What might my options be with a 15lpm flow if not a unvented cylinder as I don't have room for tanks. I need to remove the existing tanks to make space. Would a storage combi be a good option?