National identity cards

[tony1851]

Scotland will not leave the Union for some very simple and practical reasons.
Scots are not stupid; why should they become independent and then give up that independence and walk straight into the arms of the Brussells Eurocrats?
Scotland would be a drain on EU resources and would depend on handouts, just like it does now. They would have to adopt the Euro and would have less economic freedom of action than they have now.
Oil revenues? A declining industry; Salmond knew as much before the Independence referendum.
Finally, Spain would block it because it would encourage the Basque separatists.
The sight of that harridan waltzing around Brussels last week! serves her right for getting rebuffed. She overstepped the mark and had no authority whatsoever to negotiate with the EU.

 

[Himaginn]

Scotland will not leave the Union for some very simple and practical reasons.

I agree, if they can avoid it, they'll not leave the European Union for some very simple and practical reasons.
They're much more sensible than the dopey Brexiteers who are prepared to sacrifice economy, personal sovereignty, civil liberties, working conditions, not to mention global influence and bi-lateral partnerships, for promised but undeliverable reduction of immigrants and immigrants rights.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

They're much more sensible than the dopey Brexiteers who are prepared to sacrifice economy,

Economies go up as well as down.

personal sovereignty

A person does not have sovereignty, a state does.

civil liberties

Reducing the number of controlling organisations you subscribe to is a step towards more civil liberty, not less.

working conditions

The British government already guarentees better working conditions than the EU does, and always has. The idea that they'll suddenly change their minds about this is silly.

global influence and bi-lateral partnerships

We have more influence as an independent than as a diluted voice hiding behind a non-British representative.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

But the government will be our government elected by us and subject to being booted out by us, THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT. ffs

...but it may be worse.

Or it may be better. Or the same. What's your point?
(Note how when the argment comes from the Remain position, JohnD conveniently forgets to use his ready-made retors of "oh so they're evil goblins, eh? eh?")

You seem to love casting entire factions and governments as homogeneous. The Brexiters? ALL uneducated racist xenophobes. The Conservatives? ALL self-interested Etonian plutocrats. The EU officials? ALL benevolent angels with Britain's welfare at heart. The immigrants? ALL poor wide-eyed shoeless refugees and NHS-employees-to-be. The rest of the planet? ALL silently aloof and will ignore Britian.

 

[Himaginn]

They're much more sensible than the dopey Brexiteers who are prepared to sacrifice economy,

Economies go up as well as down.

They also go down, down and down.

personal sovereignty

A person does not have sovereignty, a state does.

"Personal sovereignty, then, would imply the intrinsic authority and power of an individual to determine his or her own direction and destiny. If that sounds suspiciously like free will, it's because personal sovereignty and free will are the same thing."http://www.huna.org/html/perssov.html

civil liberties

Reducing the number of controlling organisations you subscribe to is a step towards more civil liberty, not less.

If that one organisation holds more data than all the previous organisations it's a reduction in civil liberties. Even more so when more organisations, not less, have access to that data. Even more so when the ability to cross-reference that data is considered.

working conditions

The British government already guarantees better working conditions than the EU does, and always has.

Utter nonsense! Then why did it need the EU to enforce the current working conditions?

The idea that they'll suddenly change their minds about this is silly.

Is it? Why do some employers want to withdraw from EU and it's regulations?

global influence and bi-lateral partnerships

We have more influence as an independent than as a diluted voice hiding behind a non-British representative.

Rubbish.
Does Malaysia have more influence than ASEAN?
Does Malawi have more influence than African Union?
Does Minnesota have more influence than USA?
Does Manchester have more influence than Local Government Association?

 

[Himaginn]

You seem to love casting entire factions and governments as homogeneous. The Brexiterrs? ALL uneducated racist xenophobes.

I agree. There are many who have been hoodwinked by the racist xenophobes with their hyperbole.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

They also go down, down and down.

You keep saying that like you want it to go down? There are only so many times you can say "yeah but it might do down!" before you end up sounding like one of those 'the end is nigh' street-corner prognosticators.

If that one organisation holds more data than all the previous organisations it's a reduction in civil liberties. Even more so when more organisations, not less, have access to that data. Even more so when the ability to cross-reference that data is considered.

Is this about identity cards? Most countries have them and show no signs of Orwellian opression. Even if we DID get them, you really think thety'd make a hill-o-beans difference to the amount of info the government actually has on you? It's no worse than a passport and driving license, which most of us already have anyway. And at least we won't have to share that info automatically with the EU.

Utter nonsense! Then why did it need the EU to enforce the current working conditions?

It didn't need the EU. That's the point.

Is it? Why do some employers want to withdraw from EU and it's regulations?

Are you now suggesting the employers who want us to Leave do so because they are hoping (no guarentee) that it will lead to reduced workers rights? That's a new theory, which is refreshing I suppose.
Of course, the actual reason, as discussed at length during the whole campaign, was that they don't want to have to follow EU regulations on non-EU products and services, and they want us to hurry up and get trade deals with non-Eu countries. (The biggest corporations who stand to make the most money from reduced workers rights were the ones calling for us to remain, so your idea doesn't stand up to scrutiny).

Does Malaysia have more influence than ASEAN?

On Malaysian-centric legislation and interests, yes. Moreover, we are not a run-of-the-mill country; the influential effect of our language and historical world dominace should not be underestimated -it should be exploited.

 

[Himaginn]

They also go down, down and down.

You keep saying that like you want it to go down? There are only so many times you can say "yeah but it might do down!" before you end up sounding like one of those 'the end is nigh' prognosticators.

And like one of those "the world is not flat!"

If that one organisation holds more data than all the previous organisations it's a reduction in civil liberties. Even more so when more organisations, not less, have access to that data. Even more so when the ability to cross-reference that data is considered.

Is this about identity cards? Most countries have them and show no signs of Orwellian opression. Even if we DID get them, you really think thety'd make a hill-o-beans difference to the amount of info the government actually has on you? It's no worse than a passport and driving license, which most of us already have anyway. And at least we won't have to share that info automatically with the EU.

Look up ID cards on the previous attempt t introducing them, not to mention the then £100 proposed charge!

Utter nonsense! Then why did it need the EU to enforce the current working conditions?

It didn't need the EU. That's the point.

Then why didn't it introduce the regulations before. Why didn't it lead the argument for inprovements to working conditions? Why did it argue against those being introduced?

Is it? Why do some employers want to withdraw from EU and it's regulations?

Are you now suggesting the employers who want us to Leave do so because they are hoping it will lead to reduced workers rights? That's a new theory, which is refreshing I suppose.
Of course, the actual reason, as discussed at lentgh during the whole campaign, was that don't want to have to follow EU regulations on non-EU products and services. Indeed, the biggest corporations who stand to make the most money from reduced workers rights were the ones calling for us to remain.

Where have you been? Denying that working time regulations did not enter the discussion?

Does Malaysia have more influence than ASEAN?

On Malaysian-centric legislation and interests, yes. Moreover, we are not a run-of-the-mill country; the influential effect of our language and historical world dominace should not be underestimated -it should be exploited.

Yeah, like empire building, I suppose. World dominance indeed!

 

[sooey]

This nob sounds like he actually wants the country to go bust so he can be proved right on the internet.
Here's some bad news for him.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...vernment-Australia-Canada-Germany-New-Zealand

 

[Himaginn]

This nob sounds like he actually wants the country to go bust so he can be proved right on the internet.
Here's some bad news for him.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...vernment-Australia-Canada-Germany-New-Zealand

South Korea with a population less than 10% of EU. Currently 1.4% of UK foreign trade. That'll go a long way.

I see your aggression is still out of control.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

That'll go a long way.

Will that be your response to every trade deal we end up making?

 

[sooey]

He must have missed the bit which mentioned China, India, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and the bit about ministers struggling to cope.
He definitely missed the bit about members of the EU being prohibited from agreeing trade deals with anyone outside the EU.
We've only had two weeks since the vote and things are starting to look up, but don't mention that to a remainer, they'll get upset.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

Why some people want to talk down their country all the time is beyond me. Some of them on this and other forums 24/7 virtually. Slating the country that they benefit from. Traitors desperately hoping that Britain fails, so they can be proven "right on the internet". It's very sad.

 

[Himaginn]

He must have missed the bit which mentioned China, India, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, and the bit about ministers struggling to cope.
He definitely missed the bit about members of the EU being prohibited from agreeing trade deals with anyone outside the EU.
We've only had two weeks since the vote and things are starting to look up, but don't mention that to a remainer, they'll get upset.

You mean this bit:

Politicians said they may join up. One US HofR urged and to show solidarity. Canadian PM will push to continue trade ties. What, instead of curtailing them?
The WTO confirmed it was prepared to talk. How can it refuse.

It's a bit of nonsense reporting in support of Brexit.
Pounced on and lapped up by Brexiteers.
If ministers are struggling to cope now, how will they manage the other 50 odd deals?

Sorry my mistake. It was 1.4% of S Korean exports to UK. We don't how much we'll be exporting to S Korea. No wonder they can't wait.

 

[Himaginn]

. Traitors desperately hoping that Britain fails,

You'll be campaigning for them to be carted off to The Tower next.
Hyperbole is your forte.