Not doing very well are they...

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Given that the Tories want to Ram through their snooping charter, it's interesting to look back at the 'Program for Government'...


We will be strong in defence of freedom. The Government believes that the British state has become too authoritarian, and that over the past decade it has abused and eroded fundamental human freedoms and historic civil liberties. We need to restore the rights of individuals in the face of encroaching state power, in keeping with Britain’s tradition of freedom and fairness.

We will implement a full programme of measures to reverse the substantial erosion of civil liberties and roll back state intrusion. X

We will introduce a Freedom Bill.

We will scrap the ID card scheme, the National Identity register and the ContactPoint database, and halt the next generation of biometric passports. Renamed

We will outlaw the finger-printing of children at school without parental permission. X

We will extend the scope of the Freedom of Information Act to provide greater transparency.X

We will adopt the protections of the Scottish model for the DNA database.X

We will protect historic freedoms through the defence of trial by jury.X

We will restore rights to non-violent protest.X

We will review libel laws to protect freedom of speech.X

We will introduce safeguards against the misuse of anti-terrorism legislation.X

We will further regulate CCTV.X

We will end the storage of internet and email records without good reason. :rolleyes:

We will introduce a new mechanism to prevent the proliferation of unnecessary new criminal offences.X

We will establish a Commission to investigate the creation of a British Bill of Rights that incorporates and builds on all our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights, ensures that these rights continue to be enshrined in British law, and protects and extends British liberties. We will seek to promote a better understanding of the true scope of these obligations and liberties.
 
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joinerjohn

Yep, not often we agree ellal, but I'm with you 100% on this. The Communications Data Act, certainly doesn't do anything for our freedoms. The way this act is drafted, we'll soon have an internet like that which only the favoured few have in North Korea. ;) ;) ;)
 
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But it's to protect children and stop terrorists, if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.

Why do you want the terrorists and paedophiles to win?
 
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But it's to protect children and stop terrorists, if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.

Why do you want the terrorists and paedophiles to win?

26350022.jpg
 
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joinerjohn

But it's to protect children and stop terrorists, if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.

Why do you want the terrorists and paedophiles to win?

Exactly Aaron,,, So why do the government want the police to have access to ALL of your emails, internet history, phone calls etc, etc??
If they have grounds for "reasonable suspicion" , then fair enough,,,,, But how do we know they won't look at everyone's information?
You say "if we do nothing wrong, we have nothing to hide," but would you want some government snoop in GCHQ knowing your complete internet history? All sites you've visited? All forums you've posted on? And,, exactly what you've posted??
How long before someone is arrested for daring to call Cameron a [email protected], or for daring to criticise HM Government ??
 
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Don't rise to the bait jj... ;)

Btw GCHQ already have the capability (Echelon), but what they don't have is a legal framework. That is what this bill is about, as well as also opening up the data to as many government organisations as possible...

The trouble is, even government agencies have realised that the data released is being abused...

Our police farce has recently been suspended from receiving DVLA data for just that reason!
 
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But it's to protect children and stop terrorists, if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide.

Why do you want the terrorists and paedophiles to win?

26350022.jpg

Me, troll?

But seriously, listen to all the ministers defending this and it's all "terrorists and children", and you know people in this forum before have seriously used the "nothing to hid" argument.

Sadly a lot of people see nothing wrong with the "nothing to hide nothing to fear" argument and support it.

This bill will fail, but not completely, it will be chopped down, and a few things pushed through, with the "think of the children" and "nothing to hid" people supporting it.
 
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joinerjohn

They also say HMRC will have access to anyone's data. Now that should get about 3/4 of our MP's worried straight away. ;) ;)
 
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They also say HMRC will have access to anyone's data. Now that should get about 3/4 of our MP's worried straight away. ;) ;)
Don't worry...in the same way as the ID card legislation was written, 'important' people are exempt from such intrusions of 'their' civil liberties under this bill too!
 
J

joinerjohn

Don't worry...in the same way as the ID card legislation was written, 'important' people are exempt from such intrusions of 'their' civil liberties under this bill too!

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
 
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Given that the Tories want to Ram through their snooping charter, it's interesting to look back at the 'Program for Government'...


We will be strong in defence of freedom. The Government believes that the British state has become too authoritarian, and that over the past decade it has abused and eroded fundamental human freedoms and historic civil liberties. We need to restore the rights of individuals in the face of encroaching state power, in keeping with Britain’s tradition of freedom and fairness.

We will implement a full programme of measures to reverse the substantial erosion of civil liberties and roll back state intrusion. X

We will introduce a Freedom Bill.

We will scrap the ID card scheme, the National Identity register and the ContactPoint database, and halt the next generation of biometric passports. Renamed

We will outlaw the finger-printing of children at school without parental permission. X

We will extend the scope of the Freedom of Information Act to provide greater transparency.X

We will adopt the protections of the Scottish model for the DNA database.X

We will protect historic freedoms through the defence of trial by jury.X

We will restore rights to non-violent protest.X

We will review libel laws to protect freedom of speech.X

We will introduce safeguards against the misuse of anti-terrorism legislation.X

We will further regulate CCTV.X

We will end the storage of internet and email records without good reason. :rolleyes:

We will introduce a new mechanism to prevent the proliferation of unnecessary new criminal offences.X

We will establish a Commission to investigate the creation of a British Bill of Rights that incorporates and builds on all our obligations under the European Convention on Human Rights, ensures that these rights continue to be enshrined in British law, and protects and extends British liberties. We will seek to promote a better understanding of the true scope of these obligations and liberties.

Wasn't the snooping charter something control freak labour started off ?
 
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Takes me back to the Julian Assange case. He's a hero to many people for exposing the private emails and documents of public figures around the globe. Yet he himslef is an extremely private person who devotes more than usual time and money (and muscle by all accounts) into keeping his own affairs secret. Double standards comes to mind.
 
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I don't see it that way myself.

Assange was releasing public information, and protecting his own personal information, public and private are different.

And I know what you might counter argument, that the e-mails he released were "private" communication between public servants.

But he took the stance that public servants, making decisions for the public, should not be able to hide their communication detailing those decisions, and that information is owned by the public.

In a way I kind of agree, any e-mail I send through my work e-mail is not really "mine" but the companies, because as an employee what I am writing is for the company, not for myself.

I can see the argument for "state secrets", but if governments didn't keep dragging us into wars we don't support or are not in our interest, or using the "state secrets" excuse to hide their own misbehaviour, that argument would hold a lot more strength.
 
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I don't see it that way myself.

Assange was releasing public information, and protecting his own personal information, public and private are different.

And I know what you might counter argument, that the e-mails he released were "private" communication between public servants.

But he took the stance that public servants, making decisions for the public, should not be able to hide their communication detailing those decisions, and that information is owned by the public.

In a way I kind of agree, any e-mail I send through my work e-mail is not really "mine" but the companies, because as an employee what I am writing is for the company, not for myself.

I can see the argument for "state secrets", but if governments didn't keep dragging us into wars we don't support or are not in our interest, or using the "state secrets" excuse to hide their own misbehaviour, that argument would hold a lot more strength.
Got to agree with A*r*S*e this time...
 
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