NEED HELP! plumbing and AC diy system is ruining my life!!

[Jin]

Was relectant of posting this in DIY disaster section or here ..
but i'll use the positivism of this forum instead!!

so my first post, nice nice forums! very informative stuff!

I am installing my DIY AC system in my new house,
and i am having a quantity of problems with different sections unfortunately

And i would like to have help before i get myself injured trying to rip it all off PLEAAASEE !!


quick description :

- 1000liter energy ( water for now ) reservoir
- 1 recir pump ( grundfos UPS 15-58FC ) taking liquid in the reservoir and moving it through a furnace rad ( 20"X20" ) though which air is drawn by multiple fans that lead to different outputs in the house
- geothermal system consists of 2 loops of 1/2" pex ( yes i know should've used 3/4" ..but didn't know/have better at the time ) of 600' adn 1000' of length at 6' in the ground ( always in water or almost ..live on an sand island )
which is circulated using 2 grundfos UP 15 100F pumps
( chose those because of the head feet required for the 1000' loop )


will join 2 quick pictures of the system as of yesterday time


1 of the geo pump is running 100% easily
the other almost failed yesterday ( got very hot before i noticed it )
and i was not able to get it to move water at all ..not sure which is the 1000' loop
but it worked a week ago when i did first install
both runs were filled/bleeded using tap water on a T connection
and air/water just flows right through and back into the reservoir very easily ( so i know the not working one is not clogged or somethign )


Then my AC RAD pump is giving me very very hard time to start it up
had to push water from the output side with tap water to make it work some this morning ... although i've installed an air bleeder and a vacuum system ..i am still having much problem get it to start
once it starts after 30-45minutes it ends up working properly though
as if some air or blockage is still in it and it take some time to get it through ..but sooo hard to get it to start , it is almost ridiculous

ah yeah, all 3 lines are feeded only by gravity
is that ok ? i'd say that they all have something like 2-3ft of gravity feed


will now let you guys ask questions as all this is a mess and probably not very clear at all!

thanks in advance for any help !!
cheers from canada !!

 

[Jin]

pictures quick ones..let me know if you need to see more
will take some of the AC box later today

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• Jin
• 7 Jul 2012
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• Jin
• 7 Jul 2012
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[Boilerman2]

Wow!! what a good thing that job is in Canada and we are in UK!!

TBH you do things diffrently over there, so I don't think this is the best forum to post on, however by your own admission you are out of your depth, have possible undersized a few things and are now in deep ****!

I would try and find a sympathetic proffessional to sort it - it's gonna cost ya tho!!

 

[Dan Robinson]

My gut tells me you have air stalling he circulation and you need it pressurising. Not entirely sure water I'd the most effective medium either.

But as said, this forum is not really the one you need for accurate information.

 

[Jin]

ahah

well around here ( country ) we do pretty much as we please
for plumbing ..

of course trades have to follow codes
which i did meticulously for all sewer etc ..

but this is my personal custom AC and it is not part of the water system so
i can do as i wish


Dan_Robinson: well your guys were partly correct

i just found out that i had 2 problems on the same loop
( the not working GEO loop )
as the "crimp" ring was not set on the pex ( we have to change it over
to move the reservoir a few days ago ..probably forgot to crimp the new one after assembly )
and at the top of the line, the tubbing i used was leaking
( inside the tank, up from the water line ..so i was getting some air in the line all the time ... )
i used some cheapo 2 piece over pressure tank spoiler tube ...which seems like it was not tight fit by the company, will have to replace the 2 other i used later ..

now all 3 pumps are working 100% !!!! what a relief !

i will still have to figure out how to properly bleed the radiator pump system as it still takes more than 30 minutes to get back to full work


now system is running for test purposes ..

water is at around 18C in reservoire...getting back pretty cold from the geo loops, i'd say at least 3-5 degree less ..so probably around 12-14c

unfortunately my air intake is not done yet
so i draw air from the machine room
which is at approx 26C now
getting air at 21-22C in kitchen output

should be at around 18-19C one we use air from the basement
instead of cold one ( will help recirculate air from bsement same time )

using 4" fans for each section ( 6 in total )
which will have 2 speed relay installed later
and servo controlled duct plates all controlled by
individual thermostats in rooms

what do you guys think ?

will i need to add a chiller to lower the temp of the water during peak hot days ? ( we get approx 1-2 weeks of 30c + around here ...already have 5-7 isolated 30C days .. )


will post more pictures later

cheers!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Very interesting concept you have going. We would need more detailed info on the property, but 1000 litres seems very small to be running off ground source heat?

Or perhaps I am miss interpreting your terminology?

Is the ground source a great dump or heat source? Or both?

 

[Jin]

Property ? you mean the building itself ?

the house is a DIY paradise ( my paradise )
roughly 2Ksq ft on 2 stories + basement
all isolated concrete forms up to ~40'
steel deck + concrete floors with in slab electrical heating

the system is purely for air circulation and cooling air , as heat is 100% electrical infloor heating ( it is controlled by the same cold/heat thermostats )

Have some pretty large windows, but all triple pane double argon double low E ..all south and east windows are of high solar heat gain as heating is 10 times more of an expense here as cooling is

unfortunately, i have not yet installed all of my sun shades, so we still too much solar gain for this year ( got 2 shoulder surgeries in beg of 2012 ..so i'm a bit late on time budget )


My goal is to be able to keep the hole house from going higher than 24C during summer days ..
nights are almost always cool here...lower than 20c most of the time
so night/morning is usually not an issue

also in ground temperature is pretty low even in summer ..
gets to a peak at around september i believe ..something like 12-15c at max ..


back to the system ...

The geo loops are used as heat dumps mostly

the 1000 liters reservoir is only a energy reserve + exchange devide

it will probably end up being a mix of water and some alcool ..not sure yet
but i'll keep it water for the time being, until i am sure it works 100% without any leaks

so we've got geo loops cooling the 1000 liter reservoir,
or dumping heat into the ground if you prefer

the reservoir liquid is also circulating in the radiator trhough which all room fans draw air

all water going to water heating tanks as to go through a 60' 3/4" loop
that is within the water reservoir , so we draw some cold from there
and warm up the water before it gets to the water heaters

i have not verified yet if the systeme will be sufficient
but i designed it this way because i know i can add on chillers or anyother cooling device easily afterward for those high 30c periods
( like the 2 last days ... )

what do you think ?

 

[Jin]

ac half box making ..space for up to 5" filter and the 20"x20" radiator ( 2"thick )

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• Jin
• 8 Jul 2012
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box installed with the water connections ..
had to modify the connections as i had the inlet on top and
i thought it might be hard to remove air in system ..so reversed the order
and now the water gets in by the bottom connection , and goes out through the top

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• Jin
• 8 Jul 2012
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• 8 Jul 2012
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3 4"VORTEX ( made in canada brand ) fans on 4"bnq pvc pipings
that go to kitchen, dinner and living room

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• Jin
• 8 Jul 2012
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water system near ac reservoire

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• Jin
• 8 Jul 2012
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my water heater under the ac

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• Jin
• 8 Jul 2012
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3/4" coil pipe in the reservoir ...was a PITA to get in without a bent ..

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• Jin
• 8 Jul 2012
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the crimp that was not set on the geo pump line ..+ i replaced this pvc elbow as the tube below it was not sealed properly and let air in

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• Jin
• 8 Jul 2012
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now it is a sweat fitting with a pex going down half depth of reservoir

 

[Jin]

2nd distrib box done today ..

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• Jin
• 9 Jul 2012
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