neighbours noisy plumbing

[Bod ...]

I have exactly the same problem with my neighbour's taps and plumbing and with the neighbour's response - I believe the problem is amplification in the party wall. The pipes have been attached to the wall and the wall acts like an amplifier when anything is drilled into it, etc. I live in a tiny converted chapel - the outer walls are 2ft thick stone but the party wall is 200 mm grey cement bricks. I bought my half in 2003 - I like how it was converted and have not made that many alterations, it is similar to the submitted plans (living area upstairs, sleeping area downstairs because of light issues, etc). The other side was rented out for a few years until someone bought it in 2015 and decided to renovate - it was living hell and I learned that anything that is drilled, hacked, or hammered into the party wall is 'loud' - for instance, you can vaguely hear a drill start-up on the other side... then when it goes into the party wall - holy Moses - like a jet plane taking off. They moved a shower room right next to my living space a couple of years ago. My living space is only 4 meters wide - theirs is only 4 meters wide too. I cannot hear the toilet that is against the party wall but the pipes and taps to the sink are far louder than my taps - it is annoying as hell. The thing is the people next-door are not prepared to compromise by moving the pipes, etc - that would be way too helpful. Does anybody know anything about party walls that amplify like this and how to get rid of this problem from my side?

You could ask if it's possible to insulate and clip the pipework.

Insulation of pipework is something we all should be thinking of this winter so you may get them thinking for their own benefit.

 

[TapLady]

Brilliant suggestion - thanks very much - I have some pics of the bathroom that I downloaded from an estate agent - the first set of owners sold the property as an ongoing project at the start of the year. It's easier to upload the pics than trying to describe the layout the boiler is behind the untiled part.

 

[TapLady]

Yeh, when I read your post I really really felt your pain and could understand your desperation to find a solution. Every night before my neighours go to bed, when there is no traffic outside and it is all quiet, they brush their teeth etc and vooooommmmmmmm - grrrr

Insulation could be a solution for me - it is difficult to know how the sound is traveling through the wall - so maybe I will put up some kind of cheap soundproofing first and see if that has an impact. They have removed a lot of the dry lining and the insulation on their side to expose the stonework and added a few windows so parts of the party wall are colder than my gable wall, which has the original drylining. The party wall was the only part that was not drylined or insulated when I moved in - it has just been rendered to prevent noise. So maybe it would be worth doing it anyway and sort of treating it like another external wall. Nice one - thanks very much for that suggestion.

Yeh, I would never consider adding plumbing etc to a party wall because of the disturbance it may cause.. well.. kind of obvious I thought.. wish you all the best with your neighbour - hope you get something sorted out

 

[notsure123]

Thank you! - Also very best wishes to you too....your home sounds like a really special place and hope you get it sorted.

 

[Bod ...]

I found this while looking for thermal insulation board.

It's worth a look.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08K8SSZJ9/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=A3J4T4UOPA54LY&psc=1#video-immersive-view_1663123286734

 

[notsure123]

Thank you....my sister told me about acoustic panels a while back...but i was led to believe they keep noise in rather than keep noise out...but certainly at this price they are worth a try....

 

[Bod ...]

Thank you....my sister told me about acoustic panels a while back...but i was led to believe they keep noise in rather than keep noise out...but certainly at this price they are worth a try....

Fit them backwards

 

[notsure123]

Just thought i would tell you the outcome so far. I assumed that Environmental health had written to the neighbour about the noise complaint. In fact, i feel sure of it as she has really, really cut back on how often she runs her taps.....she has never run them so little before. The council have been pretty useless and made mistakes - when they wrote to me they put the address of the alleged nuisance as being a different address completely in another road......(they didnt write to me until i nudged them about the situation saying that i had not heard from them).
I feel they just cannot be bothered to be honest. Their letter is a standard letter suggesting the problem is one of poor insulation and goes on to mention flats and maisonettes......(that is not the case here).....
They say they must take 5 things into consideration.
1, `Time of incident` well its pretty much all the time and can finish at 1.30 am.
2, `incident duration` I explained that sometimes the noise is more often than not...there are some days when all she does is run her taps.
3, `Frequency of disturbance` Every single solitary day.....all day long.
4, `Nature of area`.......i dont quite understand - so if it was music booming out, it would make a difference to her plumbing sounding like the fast train is racing through a station ??
5, `Difficulty in avoiding external effects`. That would be easy...dont do it in the first place...there was nothing wrong with her inaudible plumbing to begin with and was it really difficult to not make a decision to drill into my wall and place noisy uninsulated pipes there..
6, `And convention` i am not sure what this means to be honest.
They said that it `may be possible` that `some` of this noise described is normal sounds of domestic occupation...in such circumstances it may be that sound insulation is poor or ineffective..........blah blah blah.......excuses, excuses, excuses.

How on earth can they make such judgements without hearing this noise.......I will apeal to this letter and try to persuade them to come out and listen to this noise.

They did suggest mediation which could prevent having to take legal action. I did also find out that if a neighbour `chases` anything into a party wall...electrical etc. they should discuss it with the neighbour first as it does come under the party wall act...but now this is done there is nothing i can do about it. Perhaps i should contact the owner of this property and explain what has happened....they are a huge housing association.....

Still unbelievably she has made no attempt to discuss the situation with me.....

oh what a moany old post...

I was also wondering how `myname is bod` was getting on with their noisy neighbour plumbing situation.....it makes me so angry because literally these selfish, inconsiderate people are actually wrecking other peoples lives....I also think that what she has done is absolute stupidity...maybe she is just naive - it seems ridiculous that she did not just fit the shower to her existing bathroom plumbing which is what i had done here......

 

[notsure123]

Hello

Can i possibly ask any plumbers or anybody who might know. So this saga of the noisy water pipes continues. I did fight with EH over the fact this was a statutory nuisance. I am currently keeping 2 weeks of diaries.....i could not download thier noise app. I have noticed that when she turns her taps off there now appears to be a shunt noise behind my boiler.
I am not anywhere near her plumbing i would have thought. I am a bungalow attached to her house. (i cannot get into the loft....simply because i cannot get into the loft....female living alone)......how would her pipes, when she runs water be attached in any way to the plumbing of my boiler in my kitchen...indeed, my kitchen has another room behind it which is attached to her house.
I found out what the scraping flicking noise at my lounge wall is.....its her washing machine for sure in her hall (clicking in her hall when the noise of her running taps starts up - plumbing put all the way along there and i hear the taps noise higher up pouring down...and now a shunt when its turned off behind my boiler in kitchen.......i dont know what on earth she had done to her plumbing when she moved in.......surely if there was no noise of this nature whatsoever with previous tenant and even her until she had plumbing done......could they have tapped into my plumbing in my loft..there was an awful lot of drilling into adjoining wall when she had it done....
still nothing from her...she wont discuss it or acknowledge it. I am hoping and praying that environmental health will take it futher when i return the diary sheets...

many thanks...sorry for sounding so boring about all of this but its driving me insane

 

[Madrab]

Your mains water could be a shared service, whereby you share a common mains pipe. If so then yes, her washing machine or appliances could be sending a pulse back down the mains pipe and it's resonating in your pipework.

If you haven't already, I would also get in touch with your water transporter, they may have a procedure to investigate water issues like this.

 

[Fred Blogs]

When I had a noise problem in a previous detached bungalow Enviromental Health sent me a letter explaining what I had to do and a pre printed diary to record the instances of the noise nuisance. I also rigged a microphone up to my computer and recorded the very frequent noise instances. I had to do that for 14 days and submit those findings to EH. I moved although not because of the noise, that had stopped after EH intervened. I am now in a detached bungalow where the water flow to my toilet was very very poor. I installed a pump which is very noisy especially where the water hits the 90 degree fittings the plumber used to take pipes round corners. These bends should have been properly bent pipes rather than 90 degree fittings and I will change them at some point. The pump only comes on when the water is run in the bathroom or the toilet cistern is filling but I will admit that if there was a property attached to that side of the house I'm pretty sure it would be excessivley loud in their property. Luckily there isn't. Why the flow rate was so low I have no idea and neither did the plumber. Not a lot of help in your situation I'm afraid and I think that if your neighbour doesn't respond to letters then EH are very unlikely to do anything.

 

[notsure123]

Your mains water could be a shared service, whereby you share a common mains pipe. If so then yes, her washing machine or appliances could be sending a pulse back down the mains pipe and it's resonating in your pipework.

If you haven't already, I would also get in touch with your water transporter, they may have a procedure to investigate water issues like this.

Hi, thanks for your response....who is my water transporter? Is it thames water? Apologies. I know i sound naive. The problem with an `investigation` like this is that she will not respond to anything,,,,which is why i am hoping that environmental health might speak to her about this noise. She doesnt talk to anybody and despite my distress she wont acknowledge anything....(very odd!!)..

 

[notsure123]

When I had a noise problem in a previous detached bungalow Enviromental Health sent me a letter explaining what I had to do and a pre printed diary to record the instances of the noise nuisance. I also rigged a microphone up to my computer and recorded the very frequent noise instances. I had to do that for 14 days and submit those findings to EH. I moved although not because of the noise, that had stopped after EH intervened. I am now in a detached bungalow where the water flow to my toilet was very very poor. I installed a pump which is very noisy especially where the water hits the 90 degree fittings the plumber used to take pipes round corners. These bends should have been properly bent pipes rather than 90 degree fittings and I will change them at some point. The pump only comes on when the water is run in the bathroom or the toilet cistern is filling but I will admit that if there was a property attached to that side of the house I'm pretty sure it would be excessivley loud in their property. Luckily there isn't. Why the flow rate was so low I have no idea and neither did the plumber. Not a lot of help in your situation I'm afraid and I think that if your neighbour doesn't respond to letters then EH are very unlikely to do anything.

Thank you for this....something is deifinitely wrong somewhere with her plumbing as I do not know a single person who hears this type of noise and at this volume when a neighbour is running their taps. It is outrageously loud.....sending me insane and to be honest...these last few days of keeping a diary I have had to put...`i am sorry but my white noise machine is now on permanantly at full blast as the noise is truly tipping me ovr the edge and i cannot stand it any longer`.
During the entire summer she has family stay and they do not stop running the taps. She knows there is a problem because she plays around with the taps trying to adjust the volume..they are on for 5 secs, off, on for 10 secs, off, on for 2 secs off....its louder then quieter...it is maddening.

hope you are now noise free completely. Just shows you, even in a detached property you can still suffer from noise problems.

I think that every single dwelling should be built detached with sound proofing..we dont choose our neighbours and end up practically living with them.....i dont know why my phone does not pick up the volume of the noise when i video it......I have told EH that obviously she has a right to run her taps 24/7 if she wishes but its the noise it creates that is completely unacceptable. I also said that it is not a noise you can make an opinion on based on `volume`. it is the type of noise.

What concerns me is that if she is left to her own devices, and EH cannot take anything further, she is not going to do a single thing about the noise and so its there permenantly, even if she sold and moved it is still there...

i think she will not acknowledge the noise because if she came in and listened to it as most `normal` people would do, she might feel obliged to do something about it.....

Honestly, neighbours, if you dont get nice ones, they can make your life a complete misery.....sorry..having a good moan.

 

[kingandy2nd]

...these last few days of keeping a diary I have had to put...`i am sorry but my white noise machine is now on permanantly at full blast as the noise is truly tipping me ovr the edge and i cannot stand it any longer`...

This is not going to help your cause...you need to do what EH require (i.e. a proper log) if you expect any help.

There are plenty of other sound recording devices, and even independent companies that can can act like EH to provide you with monitoring tools.

You could ask for a plumber to inspect the pipes in your loft, or even to just listen to the noise and make an assessment.

Your basic lack of action to try and sort this just strikes me as strange considering you're suggesting it's having such a detrimental affect on you.

 

[Madrab]

I'd have a chat with citizens advice just to ask how they would recommend engaging with the neighbour so they can't ignore it, not as much about the specific issue, just about how you get someone to officially acknowledge communications. You may need to make an official communication, registered (signed for) letter etc to ensure she has received it. Is she an owner or tenant?