New bathroom - early stages

[IT Minion]

I'm trying to add a new first floor bathroom to my house. We used to have a small box room next to a toilet + sink, neither was really big enough for what it was trying to do but together they have a chance to be useful. This will be a thread to cover the work as it goes, with the hope that if i'm doing something deeply stupid then someone will jump in and point it out. In particular where it's going to be best to bring in a pro to avoid electrocution or stuff that's just beyond an arthritic amateur.

The rooms themselves are slightly interesting as half of it protrudes over the front door/ porch below. In effect if you time things right you could be ****ting over any Jehovah's witnesses that were popping round. It's also got a chunk out of one corner to provide some head room whilst you climb the stairs.

I'm most of the way through stripping the rooms back so I need to do some planning before I get much further. I'm going to get a sparky in to help with the electrics (there's a cable that runs through the new bathroom floor that comes up through the cavity. I can add a light switch safely enough but i'm not touching that), although if they're happy I might do some of the first fit.

Is converting a cloakroom to a bathroom by adding a bath something that needs building control involved?

 

[bobasd]

OP, you should work to a plan.
call your local BCO and ask if they are interested in your proposal.
most sparkies prefer doing all the fixing themselves.

 

[IT Minion]

The people on the phones at my BC aren't the sharpest tools in the box from a previous conversation with them. I doubt if I could get anything I could rely upon until the actual inspector comes to call. But if I need to involve BC then I will bring them in as soon as I've got a plan drawn up (and will start on that). I haven't wanted to do that yet as I wanted to see exactly what was there under the floor and wall coverings. I've done some sketches but they don't rate the term 'plan'.

 

[bobasd]

the BCO wont give details over the phone - neither will they do much assisting in either your proposal or on an inspection.
they are there to determine if the Regs have been followed - anything else is a bonus.
they will accept rough sketches if they are accurate for Regs.
you need a dimensioned plan.

why not post pics of the outside and what you've demolished so far?

 

[IT Minion]

the BCO wont give details over the phone - neither will they do much assisting in either your proposal or on an inspection.
they are there to determine if the Regs have been followed - anything else is a bonus.
they will accept rough sketches if they are accurate for Regs.
you need a dimensioned plan.

why not post pics of the outside and what you've demolished so far?

I know that bit. My uncertainty is if building control need to be involved at all. The people on the phone won't know and they'll need payment before they would send a BCO round to confirm if there's any need for them.


View from hallway, in the far right corner there was a toilet and there is still the cast iron soil stack, now temporarily capped off.


Looking out into hallway, previous and future toilet on the left.

My list of 'demolitions' includes (no particular order);

1. Getting the radiator out,
2. removing the two sockets (one is a spur so I can do, the second might be better done by a sparky).
3. Replacing the single glazed tiny window with fixed obscured glass.
4. Replacing the main window panes with obscured glass
5. Taking out the door on the right of the first image and rebuilding as a stud wall.
6. Probably rebuilding the other door as well
7. Tracing and removing a wire that wanders through the floor from the cavity wall cavity (removing is going to be a job for aforementioned sparky)

At that point I think it'll be more or less fully cleared. Before I put anything in I'll definitely need plans, for me and for BCO (if they need to be involved)

Edit: It is dark outside and the foxes here are vicious buggers. Outside shot can wait for daylight

 

[bobasd]

its not clear what fixtures are going in? what size plastic pipe is that?
the little window could be bricked up with an extractor fitted?
is the outside rendered?
any signs of dampness in any outside walls?
all redundant pipes and cables should, if possible, be removed.
if you remove the "post" and square the room then what, if anything, is going to need supporting in the ceiling joists?
is the main window DG?

 

[IT Minion]

its not clear what fixtures are going in?

Sink, toilet, L shaped bath. Exact details tbc (plans!)

what size plastic pipe is that?

That roll laying about is some 15mm stuff that was previously run through the loft to provide cold water. The hot water comes in under the floor, just for consistency. It probably won't be reused for this job but I'm sure I can find a use for it somewhere else. The soil stack is 110mm.

the little window could be bricked up with an extractor fitted?

It might end up being bricked up. There's an existing hole through the wall that's temporarily blocked with some celotex and expanding foam that was used for a boiler exhaust. I was thinking of using that for the extractor.

is the outside rendered?

Yes, a beautiful shade of magnolia. I hate magnolia.

any signs of dampness in any outside walls?

None I've seen. It does smell like damp plaster in there but we did steam off some wall paper so I'm not sure if that's to be expected.

all redundant pipes and cables should, if possible, be removed.

Yup. Working on it.

if you remove the "post" and square the room then what, if anything, is going to need supporting in the ceiling joists?

Nothing I believe. I'm checking carefully before I remove walls but I haven't checked that specific area. We can't square the room without having to also move the door to the bedroom.

is the main window DG?

Yes.

 

[bobasd]

you've got massive room for fixtures.
15mm is to be avoided - go for min 22mm.
bricking up would then involve a patch of new render but if you have a future intention of re-painting the house render then go for it.
DG = double glaze.
i now see the edge of the bedroom door trim.

 

[IT Minion]

Well, continuing my failure to plan I've stripped out the old door way and built a new stud wall.

BCO was out because of a different bit of work and they confirmed that the walls weren't structural and didn't object to any of the intentions. The direction and routing of wastes was discussed and I really need to work those out soon.





I've also knocked a nice big chunk out of ain internal cinder block wall. Any suggestions on how to patch this crater?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Have a read of the Approved Documents to get a feel of what is acceptable and what isn't for drainage. You don't have to follow them slavishly but if you can your work will be deemed to comply to the regs. Our BCOs up here don't like cowboys but they do like people who have at least read the books and present them with problems like 'here's what I want to achieve but I can't do exactly what the ADs suggest due to (all sorts of old house issues). I can do this, or I can do this, which will comply if any'. They've all come back with sensible compromises & in some cases much better (cheaper and easier) ways of getting round the issues then I had come up with.

Don't worry about that hole in the wall til you've finished attacking the place- several goes of filler or a couple of goes of plaster, sand back to match. Has anyone mentioned the A word with that slightly textured wall finish in there?

 

[IT Minion]

Has anyone mentioned the A word with that slightly textured wall finish in there?

I think the bit you mean is the old tile adhesive. The rest is fairly smooth plaster.

I'll have a look through the approved documents. I've found what appears to be a disused drain which might allow a nice easy solution for the waste water, if not then there plenty of options.

I am getting closer to drawing up plans, I keep getting diverted by other tasks around the house.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

I think the bit you mean is the old tile adhesive. The rest is fairly smooth plaster.

No, I was looking at the wall finish around the divot on the corner (the pic where you have a pen stuck in the hole). It isn't full Artex so probably not hazardous but worth thinking about.

I'll have a look through the approved documents. I've found what appears to be a disused drain which might allow a nice easy solution for the waste water, if not then there plenty of options.

You'll need to prove that old drain for its entire length- it may be disused for a reason (leaked/no fall/drains to surface water not foul water). Often easier to just run new- if that disused drain stays disused then fill it with very wet concrete, it'll stop rats using it as a motorway

I am getting closer to drawing up plans, I keep getting diverted by other tasks around the house.

Yeah we all know that story. 'It is sometimes hard to remember, whilst fighting off alligators, that the original plan was to drain the swamp'

 

[IT Minion]

No, I was looking at the wall finish around the divot on the corner (the pic where you have a pen stuck in the hole). It isn't full Artex so probably not hazardous but worth thinking about.

You'll need to prove that old drain for its entire length- it may be disused for a reason (leaked/no fall/drains to surface water not foul water). Often easier to just run new- if that disused drain stays disused then fill it with very wet concrete, it'll stop rats using it as a motorway

Yeah we all know that story. 'It is sometimes hard to remember, whilst fighting off alligators, that the original plan was to drain the swamp'

I thought the hole was old cinder block topped with binding plaster, then a layer of skin and paint.

The old drain sits right next to the main drain, it looks like there used to be a rainwater down pipe that was removed. I was planning to get a bucket of water, pop a downstream manhole cover and see if it flows through.

Don't get me started on rats.