New boiler advice please

[SUNRAY]

I have just had an old boiler replaced with a Broag Avanta 24V and new controls & cylinder
View media item 17211 [/img] View media item 17213The system is noisy and fills with air. pipe at top and goes to left is 22mm combined F&E, straight down from there is pump, clip on temp gauge, CH valve, bypass. HW valve is to right. Separate valves were fitted at my request as heating may be split into zones.
There are no TRV's

Currently installer is saying all is ok and blames other parts of rad system for air and noise.
No problems with air or noise prior to the boiler change.

Any obvious problems visible?

 

[londonboy]

I am an electrician.

Is that bypass in the correct place?
I thought they should be BEFORE the two ports.

 

[D_Hailsham]

I have just had an old boiler replaced with a Broag Avanta 24V and new controls & cylinder

Why such a large boiler? Most houses would not need such a large one

pipe at top and goes to left is 22mm combined F&E

Not sure if Broag approve of combined Feed and Vent - it's not mentioned in their manual, might be worth checking with their Tech dept (tel: 0118 978 3434)

straight down from there is pump, clip on temp gauge, CH valve, bypass. HW valve is to right.

The pump is pumping down. This is not recommended, but it can be OK provided the height from pump to the water level in the F/E tank is over 1 metre and there is an effective air vent before the pump (I don't think a combined F & V will count).

 

[D_Hailsham]

Is that bypass in the correct place?
I thought they should be BEFORE the two ports.

You're a bright spark I didn't notice that. You are quite right, the bypass must be immediately after the pump, before any motorized valves.

Incidentally is that an Automatic air valve above the HW valve?

 

[londonboy]

Indeed I am

I was just thinking part of the noise could be pump overrun?
(not sure if this model has overrun)

 

[D_Hailsham]

I was just thinking part of the noise could be pump overrun? (not sure if this model has overrun)

Yes it does have pump over run.

The installation manual specifies a 15mm feed and a 22mm vent. No mention anywhere of a combined feed and vent.

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I'm a controls/panel man and get involved with a lot of commercial heating wich to be honest is very different to domestic.

As there are no TRV's I also assumed thebypas is in the wrong place as the pump runs into a dead head when the boiler stops and the pump over runs (I assume this is the domestic term for run on).

Its a 4 bed house with Granny annex, rad calcs get to the high 70k BTU's
not including an allowance for HW. We were considering using a 30V. I could not find reference to combined F&E in the book either. The water in header is around 625 mm above the top pump union and we had to block the vent pipe during boiler purging as it was pulling more air than water.

There are no auto vents, only bleed nips above HW valve and on boiler return high up.

The pump resonates through the house as it is fixed to a stud wall. Originally it was at floor level with 3 port above when the boiler was down stairs, its only real support was about a pile of carpet tiles on the floor. I guess it needs better support clips with sound deadening (just like the big ones do).

I have the installers boss coming back around 1930 tonight so any more pointers would be great.

 

[D_Hailsham]

I have the installers boss coming back around 1930 tonight so any more pointers would be great.

Only just seen this (1940). let us know how you got on.

 

[bengasman]

Sorry to say, but it is poorly designed.
Pumping down is a bad idea, no aav is a bad idea, and the way he installed the bypass is downright stupid.
Are you sure this guy was actually a RGI, and not an apprentice or Jack of all trades? Did you see his GSR card?

 

[SUNRAY]

Sorry to say, but it is poorly designed.
Pumping down is a bad idea, no aav is a bad idea, and the way he installed the bypass is downright stupid.
Are you sure this guy was actually a RGI, and not an apprentice or Jack of all trades? Did you see his GSR card?

No I didn't see any cards but he did know his gassafe number and quoted it easily along with his name when talking to Broag help line.

There is not much choice on the direction to pump as the connexions to the boiler are at the top and everything else is lower down. I found the company policy is to not fit aav's as they get complaints about them spitting.

 

[bengasman]

...There is not much choice on the direction to pump as the connexions to the boiler are at the top and everything else is lower down.

That is because he did not bother to design the pipework correctly.

I found the company policy is to not fit aav's as they get complaints about them spitting.

AAv's fail when there is dirt in the system. There is dirt in the system, when the installer is a muppet that doesn't clean the system properly.

 

[heatingman]

by-pass in wrong place,
don't like the combined feed & vent position,
vent above hw valve unneccessary.
Auto air vents pain in butt,
don't like the pump make/model

 

[londonboy]

Wooooo and a mere sparky over here noticed that bypass

 

[glasgowgas]

Wooooo and a mere sparky over here noticed that bypass

probably yer heating engineer mate pointed it out for you

 

[londonboy]

nope it was me!
Although it does help working for... ohh I cant say the name because of the abuse that will follow!!