New Boiler and hot water storage tank required

[Hwang2000]

Hi

Looking for some advice on Boilers and hot water tanks.

I have a floor standing Glow-Worm 45-60 boiler that has balanced flue. I'm looking to replace this and update my full hot water storage at the same time. The boiler works perfectly well just very greedy on the gas.

It looks like I will have to move onto a pressurised radiator system and a condensing boiler, Over the past 5 years all the pipes were replaced and all but 2 radiators were replaced. So the rest of the system is in good condition and I can continue with just replacing the boiler.

Can anyone recommend a floor standing boiler with a top as it will vent/breath through the roof of house. Following the old boilers flue path. I do not want a combi and if I could avoid a condensing boiler that would be even better news.

For the hot tank I would like the following. Twin immerse system as I plan to use solar panel water heating. 1 direct system as I have a log burning water heater and an Indirect for the boiler to heat the water.

I would like a tank that can run mains pressure if this is possible as getting rid of all storage if not needed for the boiler would free up my very small loft. Can anyone recommend a tank or a specialist for this combination. I want to store at least one large bath worth of hot water.

 

[bernardgreen]

if I could avoid a condensing boiler

If the building is listed or has other "special interest" then the requirement for a condensing boiler may be eased. This is if the flue and / or condensate drainage would adversely affect the building's appearance or structure. Very seldom happens.

direct system as I have a log burning water heater

all storage if not needed for the boiler would free up my very small loft.

You need to consider how much water will be needed to dissipate the heat from the log burner when things go wrong. Mains water fails and the log burner cannot be shut down quickly enough to prevent the water in the hot water tank starting to boil.,

 

[muggles]

It's virtually impossible now to avoid having a condensing boiler, and you won't find a floor-standing non-condensing boiler anywhere. In fact, I can only think of one manufacturer of floor standing condensing boilers, and that's Worcester, but it's not a great bit of kit. Why can't you have a wall hung boiler?

Joule make good quality unvented hot water cylinders, and if you can't find something in their range to suit you they'll make one to your own spec. If you want to connect a log burner to it, you'll need a H2 Panel. Be aware that this will cost you more to buy and have fitted than you'll save in fuel costs, and there aren't too many people around who hold the correct qualifications for everything you want.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Not an expert on these systems, but sounds like an expensive, complicated setup to save a few quid on gas. The pay pack will be a very long time coming. If I had that Glow Worm, I would be keeping it in good order (servicing, magnetic filter, corrosion inhibitor) and enjoying a few more years of reliable heating.

 

[Dan Robinson]

if I could avoid a condensing boiler that would be even better news.

Why?

 

[Hwang2000]

Thanks Everyone.

My glow worm I would love to keep. It just keeps running, never gives me any hassle. I service it myself its so simple to do.

However due to the layout changes to the house, the boiler has to move. Currently it is in the middle of the house and taking up space we wish to now use. So the plan is to move it into loft area.

I've been told the glow worm would be a fire risk in the loft, plus ventilation may also be an issue being a balanced flue.

Would it be possible to a frame and then use a wall mounted in the loft? With a top vented wall mount going straight up 2-3 meters to a roof vent?

What wall mounted would be the best to go for?


Basically I'm looking for a simple reliable system, hence reason to avoid combie and condensing. If I need to use and H2 panel, then I will just keep my current cold storage tank system.



My log burner is only 2KW to water if I have it flat out. During winter with both systems running it never boils the water. It is hotter than I would like. I do mainly use the log burner when winter is all but over and the heating is off. Like right now. it provides hot water and keeps house warm. I would like solar to take over the hot water supply when both are not in use, during the summer months.

 

[Dan Robinson]

At risk of repeating myself.....what do you have against condensing boilers?

 

[Hwang2000]

At risk of repeating myself.....what do you have against condensing boilers?

Hi Dan,

They are not as efficient as made out to be and will only really save you when used with under floor heating. Not so efficient when used with radiators. They also use more electricity than a conventional boiler, that is never accounted for when they tell you how much gas they will save you.

A conventional boiler is far simpler with less to fail.

Would love the reliability of my glow worm.... I can dream

 

[muggles]

Hi Dan,

They are not as efficient as made out to be and will only really save you when used with under floor heating. Not so efficient when used with radiators. They also use more electricity than a conventional boiler, that is never accounted for when they tell you how much gas they will save you.

A conventional boiler is far simpler with less to fail.

Would love the reliability of my glow worm.... I can dream

Wow, what wacky website have you been reading? Almost everything you've said is wrong

 

[bernardgreen]

Wow, what wacky website have you been reading? Almost everything you've said is wrong

Other than the bit about electricity used everything else is reasonably accurate. The claims for a boiler's efficiency may be proven by tests in the laboratory set up but who wants to live in a laboratory set up.

 

[muggles]

Other than the bit about electricity used everything else is reasonably accurate. The claims for a boiler's efficiency may be proven by tests in the laboratory set up but who wants to live in a laboratory set up.

I was going to say the exact opposite to that - ONLY the bit about increased electricity usage is accurate (due to the addition of a fan over OP's old natural draught boiler). With the correct setup it's perfectly possible to achieve the same efficiency at home as on a test rig.

 

[stem]

On paper the efficiency figures look good, but I have yet to hear anyone who has had a new 'condensing' boiler fitted to an existing system that previously had a fairly modern 'non condensing' boiler fitted (ie fan assisted flue without a permanent pilot light) saying that they have noticed any significant reduction to their energy consumption. "Not really" or "a little bit maybe" is the usual reply. But I readily admit my experience is somewhat limited compared to many on here, so maybe there are folks out there that can state that their bills have been cut significantly just by changing their boiler. I just haven't come across them.

However, I'm not sure what the OP's boiler is. This model sounds a bit old, even for me . Hwang2000 states that:

I have a floor standing Glow-Worm 45-60 boiler that has balanced flue.

OK, balanced flue it is... but then he seems to describe something else.....

it will vent/breath through the roof of house. Following the old boilers flue path.

....and we also get this:

ventilation may also be an issue being a balanced flue.

 

[muggles]

I think he mostly doesn't know what he's talking about! A floor standing 45/60 is conventional flue I think

 

[bernardgreen]

ONLY the bit about increased electricity usage is accurate (due to the addition of a fan over OP's old natural draught boiler)

Fair comment, I had not realised the existing boiler did not have a fan.

With the correct setup it's perfectly possible to achieve the same efficiency at home as on a test rig.

It requires the same set up and the same "lifestyle". I do wonder if the "life style" of the test rig is typical of the normal domestic life style.

When the test set up is returning flow to boiler at well below the dew point in order that the boiler is able to condense. How many domestic set ups can achieve that without replacing existing radiators with larger radiators that will provide the necessary heat to the rooms with water temperatures low enough to ensure condensing happens. ?

Installing under floor heating will ( probably ) achieve that but then there is a life style change necessary to adapt to the very slow response time of under floor heating.

Fan blown radiators can provide good room heating with low water temperatures but then life style has to adapt to the noise of fans.