New Flat: No Thermostat and Heating & Hot Water Combined

[mozboz]

Hi All,
I've just moved into a flat and need some advice on a) how common/uncommon this setup is these days (i.e. how much we should expect out landlord to change it and b) what's involved in changing it c) how it actually works..

We have a boiler (Potterton Profile 50e) in the kitchen, and an immersion heater in an airing cupboard approx 20ft from kitchen through the sitting room. There is a Honeywell timer control for turning the heating and hot water on and off - it looks like the heating control on it does nothing, and the hot water control switches on/off the boiler in the kitchen which then turns the heating on *and* warms up the water in the immersion heater tank. There is no thermostat anywhere, and I haven't worked out a way to see if the immersion heater in the tank can warm the water up on it's own , or have the boiler in the kitchen make hot water without the heating coming on. The only other controls are a mains style on/off switch by the boiler and immersion, and the simple dial control on the front of the boiler.

My main problem is that there is no hot water without the heating being on! Is that normal? Also the immersion heater looks like it's in a mess - has it probably been disabled? Should the boiler be producing instant hot water?

Thanks for any/all help advice!

m

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

My main problem is that there is no hot water without the heating being on! Is that normal?

No! It sounds to me like you have a control fault

Also the immersion heater looks like it's in a mess - has it probably been disabled?

I cant see from here Is there a wire coming out of the immersion heater ? have you tried following this back to the switch? Is there a switch for it in your kitchen? Does the light come on when you turn the switch on?etc etc If theres any exposed wiring or you have any doubts about it consult an electrician or suitably qualified plumber.

Should the boiler be producing instant hot water?

Absolutely ... NOT............
Profile 50e is just a boiler not a combi!

 

[mozboz]

My main problem is that there is no hot water without the heating being on! Is that normal?

No! It sounds to me like you have a control fault

Ok, so the boiler should definitely be able to heat the hot water in the water tank without going via the heating (i.e. the radiators) ?

Also the immersion heater looks like it's in a mess - has it probably been disabled?

I cant see from here Is there a wire coming out of the immersion heater ? have you tried following this back to the switch? Is there a switch for it in your kitchen? Does the light come on when you turn the switch on?etc etc If theres any exposed wiring or you have any doubts about it consult an electrician or suitably qualified plumber.

(I'm not a plumber, I'm a programmer, if it hasn't got a keyboard and a screen, I can't work it ) I guess what I was asking was is it normal if a new boiler for hot water is installed to disable the immersion heater? There's a black plastic thing that says 'Pedrinc Immersion Heater' on the top, but it definitely doesn't have any wires coming out of it at that point.

Should the boiler be producing instant hot water?

Absolutely ... NOT............
Profile 50e is just a boiler not a combi!

Good to know, thanks.

Assuming it's possible to get the boiler to heat the hot water in the tank via pipes other than the radiator, which is more efficient for a two person flat - the gas boiler, or the electric immersion heater?

Thanks again.

 

[JMAC49]

I think your system is the same one that is fitted to my father's house. This was a reasonably cheap system to install as it only required a simple programmer and a single motorised valve with no complicated wiring.
My father's system has the boiler which heats the hot water when the heating is on, but also can be set to heat the hot water independantly.
I would guess your system is the same but with a problem !

How my father's system works:-
The boiler heats the water which flows out the flow pipe (usually 22mm).
Somewhere along this pipe there will be a T connection where the large 22mm pipe will reduce down to around about 15mm (could be smaller) which is outward part of the T. This goes to the hot water cylinder coil which heats the hot water.
The big 22mm pipe then goes to a single motorised valve, which is controlled by the programmer. When the programmer is set for central heating, the valve opens and the hot water goes round the radiators as well as the hot water cyclinder coil.
On my father's system, the programmer is a special type with a linked HW and CH or HW only selector switch. When the switch is on HW & CH, power is sent to the valve to open, and to the boilder and pump .

When the switch is on the HW only . Power is only sent to the pump and boiler. The valve doesn't open and no heat is sent round the radiators.

I would guess that the programmer or the motorised valve installed in your system may be at fault.
I would say probably the programmer as the valves as usually spring return valves which should normally be shut anyway.

If the programmer has been replaced with the wrong type, then the power to open the valve (which then sends heat to the radiators) may be sent all the time, so the radiators are always getting heat.

Nothing wrong with the pump or boiler as you are getting the hot water to heat and go round the system.

I would check the programmer.

My father's hot water cylinder also has an immerser, which I have disconnected and it is only controlled by the boiler.
Hope this is of help
Regards

John

 

[D_Hailsham]

1. Which model Honeywell timer do you have?

2. Can you see anything looking like either of these - it may be near the hot water cylinder?

View media item 5945 View media item 5946
3 Do you anything like this?

View media item 802
It might help if you posted a photo of the cupboard with the hot water cylinder - use the Images option on this site.

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

My main problem is that there is no hot water without the heating being on! Is that normal?

No! It sounds to me like you have a control fault

Ok, so the boiler should definitely be able to heat the hot water in the water tank without going via the heating (i.e. the radiators) ?

Yes but when you have no diverter valve sometimes you get gravity circulation which can make one or more upstairs radiators heat up unintentionally. Gravity circulation is required to heat up the HW but due to a bad pipework layout it heats up the rads.

If you have a diverter valve its a different story. The DV head may be removed, faulty or wired incorrectly, your programmer could have a fault.

Also the immersion heater looks like it's in a mess - has it probably been disabled?

I cant see from here Is there a wire coming out of the immersion heater ? have you tried following this back to the switch? Is there a switch for it in your kitchen? Does the light come on when you turn the switch on?etc etc If theres any exposed wiring or you have any doubts about it consult an electrician or suitably qualified plumber.

(I'm not a plumber, I'm a programmer, if it hasn't got a keyboard and a screen, I can't work it ) I guess what I was asking was is it normal if a new boiler for hot water is installed to disable the immersion heater? There's a black plastic thing that says 'Pedrinc Immersion Heater' on the top, but it definitely doesn't have any wires coming out of it at that point.

So the immersion heater has been fitted but not wired up.
Disabling an IH is always a bad idea
Its always good to have an IH as back up incase you get a fault with the boiler.

Should the boiler be producing instant hot water?

Absolutely ... NOT............
Profile 50e is just a boiler not a combi!

Good to know, thanks.

Assuming it's possible to get the boiler to heat the hot water in the tank via pipes other than the radiator, which is more efficient for a two person flat - the gas boiler, or the electric immersion heater?

Thanks again.

Gas is cheaper than electric even if your gas boiler is an old SEDBUK band G type

 

[Tipper]

Just a thought, have you seen a gas safety certificate for the boiler from the landlord? It is required by law every year.

If not ask him to get it inspected and at the same time get the engineer to review the system with you so you understand what it all does or is supposed to do.

 

[bengasman]

The simple answer is: if you are paying full market value in rent, you are entitled to a proper working heating system.
how much should you expect from you landlord?
that depends on how much hassle you are prepared to give him. no disrespect, but you are wasting your time on the forum, daily calls/emails to landlord will do a lot more.
the landlord certificate question is a good one, follow up on that.