New High tech cameras to enforce 20mph roads

[morqthana]

Its not helpful to your argument but since then the law has been updated in a lot of countries to require helmets for children by law when skiing and adult use of helmets is now routine when it used to be sneered at, and injuries are down by roughly 50%.

He doesn't have an argument. He says that anybody who expects him to is a

sad f***.

That's why he's gone directly to the insults and ridicule.

 

[morqthana]

All it will do is "criminalise" a lot of people,

It will do nothing adverse to people who obey the law.

and do nothing for the no-fegs-given 60-in-a-20 brigade.

60-in-a-20 drivers can be banned.

(Cue Nosey's "speeding is optional" response, which i don't literally disagree with. But I do not agree that inappropriate, disproportionate and /or arbitrary numbers on a sign make anything safer in themselves).

20mph limits are not inappropriate, disproportionate, or arbitrary, per se, any more or less than any speed limits are. For some reason there's a sub-group of people in this country who have allowed themselves to be whipped into a frenzy over some speed limits being reduced to the same level that millions, possibly billions, of drivers world-wide have managed to put up with for their entire lives without thinking that their governments are at war with them.

20mph limits save lives and injuries and property damage.

They reduce pollution.

They improve public health and quality of life.

They are popular with everybody except the sub-group of fecktards.

In reality though, 20 zones are an imperfect solution to a situation.
Another imperfect solution being banning vehicles from them altogether.

What is the "situation"?

What would be a perfect, or less imperfect, solution?

 

[morqthana]

Death and serious injuries aren't down beyond the previous trend, despite 100s of miles of 20mph limits. The authorities always target roads with an increase of accidents and then show the post "treatment" results in a positive outcome. All over the the country 20mph limits are having a dramatic effect on road casualties. Except when you look at the long term data, you can see no significant impact on the trend.

"There is now evidence from 20mph implementation within the UK which
finds a statistically significant reduction in casualties compared to background levels.
Importantly, such findings triangulate with the evidence on speed reduction and
collision reduction. The fact that for each average 1mph speed reduction in an urban
area there is a 6% reduction in collisions fits well with the findings from the UK
studies reported here.
.
.
For casualty reduction the evidence is consistent that casualties are reduced
as a result of 20mph speed limits. The evidence is moderate to strong."


And insurers, who tend to be statistics-based and pretty risk averse are starting to reduce premiums for drivers who live in or near 20mph areas.

Why the 20mph limit is reducing your car insurance premium

A car insurance company has said that there is clear evidence that the policy is working

www.walesonline.co.uk

But enforcing 20mph limits does make money and in this case, if the "speeder" is offered an awareness course instead of points and fine, the money flows back to TfL. Funny that.

How much "flows back to TfL"? Does it create an operating surplus, or just partially offset the costs of enforcement?

 

[morqthana]

I read an interesting comment once -

"I hear numerous complaints from motorists about the 20mph limit. It can be frustrating, and there may be places where a higher limit would be more appropriate. However I have yet to hear of an accident victim (be they pedestrian, cyclist or driver/passenger in a motor vehicle) complaining that they wish they'd been hit by something driving a bit faster."

 

[morqthana]

I drove around Wales last year. Nobody drives at 20, most just a bit below 30. If you actually drive at 20 you'll end up with a bootful of angry german-badged car drivers, a huge danger in itself.

Fkkk them.

And BTW - I drive a German badged car.

It has a cruise control I can set to 20, and it has a law-abiding, civic-minded driver.

 

[morqthana]

Near me there is a road with 2 lanes in each direction 30 zone at the bottom I need to turn right so from the start of that road i am in the right hand lane doing 30 and it seems to infuriate people who sit right behind me and the first chance they get when the left hand lane is clear is to swerve into that - blast past me and swerve back in front of me and continue on at about 40mph.

Get a dashcam - start sending the footage to the police.

 

[morqthana]

The only relevant way to measure the stats is to first separate killed from seriously injured. The two together create noise as K is a low number and SI is a high number. SI is also not really seriously injured. Killed could be up 20% and SI down 3% (made up numbers btw) and you could show a "good news" story claiming KSI is down. The only real way to measure if K is falling is to look at K pBVKM. You have to go quite hard in to the weeds to look at that. Fortunately AI can do that. It's about a 3% decline and it's been like that for a long time. All these "20mph zone reduced casualties by 30%" don't stack up, given how much of the road estate has been lowered from 30 to 20 in the last few years.

- Cars have been getting safer for decades.
- 4-7% decline in private vehicle use in London - pretty much wipes out the improvements

Did you read this?

 

[morqthana]

I do agree it is difficult to drive at 20MPH for prolonged periods though.

Do you find it equally difficult to drive at 30mph for prolonged periods?

If not can you explain the law of nature which makes 20mph difficult to sustain?

Especially when there are intermittent zones. It just makes you more aware of your speed.

But you're OK with an environment where roads have speed limits of 30, 40, 50, 60, and 70mph? But adding one more into the mix, or changing the 30 to 20, leaves you unable to cope?

 

[morqthana]

Driving at 20mph is painfully slow, and frustrating to boot.

Millions, possibly billions, of people in other countries cope with it.

Are they special, or are you?

it just seems to be rolled out everywhere in London, and is clearly a money making scheme.

For whom?

 

[morqthana]

I was all over these numbers 15 years ago, when all the speed kills bs, first came out. Unfortunately, there is too much money to be made taxing drivers making mistakes.

For someone who claims to be a legal professional, you seem to have a bringing-into-disrepute level of contempt for laws.

 

[morqthana]

Tell us that you are the tiny minority on here capable of a proper intelligent argument without telling us you are that minority.

I hadn't realised that those capable of a proper intelligent argument were such a tiny minority here - I'd always assumed that most who failed to do so were simply trivial and juvenile in nature, not that they were afflicted by deficiencies of ability.

 

[securespark]

If you actually drive at 20 you'll end up with a bootful of angry german-badged car drivers, a huge danger in itself.

30 is a limit, not a target and a lot of the time you're in a 30, you're doing 20 or below anyway, so what's the biggie?

We've done 20 in Wales and not suffered idiots, but there are those that will cram themselves up your arse whatever speed you do.

 

[morqthana]

And everybody please remember this.

It isn't only about safety, there are other factors. People other than car drivers also use the roads. We call them "pedestrians", or "cyclists", for example.

With lower speed limits, people are more ready to walk or cycle. They're more ready to walk or cycle with their children to school. They're happier to let their children walk or cycle to school unaccompanied.

Do their wants count for nothing? Must everything only and always be about what car drivers want?

Then there's reduced pollution, less noise, better fuel consumption...

 

[noseall]

Do you find it equally difficult to drive at 30mph for prolonged periods?

No.

If not can you explain the law of nature which makes 20mph difficult to sustain?

No nature law no. More gears, hills, straights and engine tone law.

But you're OK with an environment where roads have speed limits of 30, 40, 50, 60, and 70mph?

I'm ok with all speed limits.

But adding one more into the mix, or changing the 30 to 20, leaves you unable to cope?

Cope? No idea what you are going on about.

 

[Odds]

Is the problem that people who are capable of proper, intelligent arguments, based on reasoning and facts etc, are in a tiny minority here?

^this^

Or is it that there's a dearth of people mature enough to want to?

or ^that^.