New house BUT next door has Subsidence

[jonnyg2k6]

My wife and I are about to embark on a purchase of a lovely detached home, BUT the next door semi deatched house suffererd subsidence.

We know for a fact the next door semi had to be sold for cash at auction due subsidence. I think this only effected one side of the semi and I inspected the empty property at the time. Basicly there was a half inch gap between the brick below the damp proof and the brick above the damp proof. So you could almost pull the damp proof out. The house has since been fixed and sold through a std estate agent.

My question is, although the detchached property we are looking to buy has no signs of subsidence could it in the future because the next door semi had it?
Should we steer clear of this property even though we love it?

By the way, both houses are 3 years old and the two houses are about 2.5 meters apart.

 

[ModernMaterials]

I'm gonna bite the bullet on this one cus you said you loved the place.

I wouldnt touch it with a barge pole.

3 yrs old and 2.5 metres away being the scary phrases.

 

[JohnD]

I agree.
A modern house ought to have had good foundations and should not have subsided like that in justa few years.Unless it was very badly built there might be something underneath like an old pit or a bad water leak that has made a hole for the house to fall into.

We have to suspect that the building quality, and the hole underneath, affect your proposed house as well.

I would need to see very good evidence that the reason for the other house collapsing did not affect mine before I would even consider making a greatly reduced offer and getting solid insurance after declaring the risk.

 

[jonnyg2k6]

UPDATE!!!!!

I have since spoken to the house builder (big company) structural engineer who worked on the faulty foundation next door. He said that all the houses on that row are built on Pile foundations (being on a hill side which has had infill). He stated that one of the piles on the semi failed and the reason was unknown. He said it was tested before being fitted but may have been damaged during construction. He said it was unlikely to affect the house we are looking at but he suggested a full structural engineers report if we were serious about the house. Apparently there was negative pull on the pile which pulled the foundation downward?? Quite a lot of work was completed on the semi and it is now 100% but I still cannot make my mind up on whether to put an offer in for next door???

 

[JohnD]

From where I'm standing, if they don't know why the first one failed, they don't know if it will happen again.

There are plenty of other houses on the market you can look at.

See if you can get subsidence insurance on this one given the history... it may not be easy. I wouldn't buy it without. Even if you can, once you have had a subsidence claim it will be difficult to sell and difficult to reinsure.

 

[robert99]

The negative friction is caused by the weight of fill trying to settle but the pile resisting that force. The load of the house plus load from the fill overstresses the pile and it fractures. These houses are totally dependant on those piles for support. A structural engineer will NOT be able to determine if this has happened or about to happen in your house and certainly won't take the risk of being sued by making a guess. To get insurance you have to declare all this up front to the new insurer and they will run a mile. The present owner can't do anything on his insurance as it has not failed, as yet. You can end up with an unsaleable, uninsurable, unmortgagable house. You would be crazy to even think about it unless you can get a £100k+ cash bond to cover the repiling you might need. A normal house has enough problems.

 

[Softus]

Should we steer clear of this property even though we love it?

Yes. Open your eyes jonny.

 

[^woody^]

But all this is on the assumption that the whole estate is on dodgy foundations and all the houses will be falling down soon.

This is most unlikely.

 

[Softus]

No assumptions. House prices, like company share prices, are market driven.

The house will have a lower value because of the risk, as well as actually having the risk too.

 

[^woody^]

I doubt it.

Like the OP, there is always someone who will 'love' to buy it, and the risk becomes secondary.

I've seen some really crap designed, located and built new properties, but they still go for premium prices and sell fast. No one cares except that it is new (ish)

Unless there is a problem with that particular house, then it will sell at full market rates.

 

[Softus]

Unless there is a problem with that particular house, then it will sell at full market rates.

There is a problem - the mortgage will cost more because of the risk.

 

[ModernMaterials]

I just wanted to recap, for my own sanity as much as anything else.

1. You spoke to the engineerwho worked on the faulty foundation.

2. He stated that one of the piles failed; reason: unknown.

3. He suggested you seek a full structural engineers report.

As he, himself, is a structural engineer and cannot tell you why the particular pile on which he worked, failed, why would he expect any other engineer to fare any better? Could it be that he is doing a professional courtesy to any other member of his profession who might benefit from your custom? ( God i am cynical)

I think a fair model of this situation would be a chopstick to represent the pile and a bowl of peas to represent the hill. (but i am no structural engineer)

Find some other property to fall in love with. It aint the end of the world that this house is just too much of a risk.

Good Luck

 

[IJWS15]

I remember looking at a semi in York years ago - just what we wanted, walking distance from work - 3 bed semi for 2 bed price...

One corner had dropped 1" causing cracks, Estate Agent told us all about the underpinning and how the house was now OK. We walked away. House still standing but we could not take the chance.

If the house is <10 years old it will still have a guarantee but if the nextdoor house was sold at auction because of the subsidence then this indicates that they are not that new - the builder would have had to fix it at his cost or buy it back - and ask the owner of the other half of the semi if he thinks it has not affected the value of his house!

It is the most significant investment you will make, can you afford to lose your investment - I would walk away.

 

[Nige F]

NO WAY would I touch it.......you have made a good descision by asking this forum .......sure it`ll retain it`s Percieved value....so do places here in Sussex that flood Because the whole house "thing" is a National Obsession........your£, Your call

 

[Richard C]

My question is, although the detchached property we are looking to buy has no signs of subsidence could it in the future because the next door semi had it?
Should we steer clear of this property even though we love it?

It’s difficult to walk away when you finally find a property you like but there will always be another. After months of searching, we found a rural property that ticked all the many boxes we had & it was perfect. Weeks of messing us about with silly excuses followed & we even increased our offer above the asking price but the vendor finally withdrew from the sale (she didn’t really want to move) & it seemed like the end of the world. 2 weeks later a much better property came onto the market just a half mile up the same lane; it was even better & cheaper so it turned out she really did us a favor!

Personally I would never consider a property in a landfill site regardless if there had been any incidence of subsidence let alone one next door to a property that had actually been affected. There have been far too many problems with development sites like this in recent years & you could end up with a unsaleable property regardless of what guarantees are given; walk away, it’s not worth the risk!