New kitchen layout wiring/sockets/oven advice

[scoobasteve]

Hi,

Fitting a new kitchen which is going to involve relocating single oven - about 2 ft to the side and 2 ft up into a tall oven housing, it's currently wired into an outlet behind the oven which is fed from a cooker control unit on a 50amp radial. the control unit's location will be behind a built in fridge freezer in the new layout so I have a couple of questions.

1. Is it OK to leave the cooker control unit behind a built in fridge/freezer - if it is this would be ideal as I can plug the fridge freezer into this and the oven outlet will still be accessible to the ovens new location to leave wired into that.

2. If i have to re-locate/remove the cooker control unit can I just convert it to a socket to feed the fridge freezer (disconnecting the oven feed) and run the oven straight into an existing socket - I have one available already which will be available to the oven in new location. Will it matter that the fridge freezer is being fed by a 50amp radial?

Hope these make sense!

 

[scoobasteve]

Forgot to say oven is 2.7kw so should be fine on a 13a plug.

 

[ericmark]

The Isolator needs to be accessible. If it is then OK if not you need to do something. You will note in many kitchens the sockets feeding washing machine etc are not accessible and an isolator is fitted in a remote location so if something like the weights fell off and washing machine starts to smash up the kitchen it can be switched off.
As to running off ring main it states:-

The load current in any part of the circuit should be unlikely to exceed for long periods the current-carrying capacity of the cable (Regulation 433.1.5 refers). This can generally be achieved by:
(i) locating socket-outlets to provide reasonable sharing of the load around the ring
(ii) not supplying immersion heaters, comprehensive electric space heating or loads of a similar profile from the ring circuit
(iii) connecting cookers, ovens and hobs with a rated power exceeding 2 kW on their own dedicated radial circuit
(iv) taking account of the total floor area being served. (Historically, limit of 100 m² has been adopted.)

As you can see it does not say you shouldn't but it does warn against it.

 

[scoobasteve]

Thanks for reply - I did have a browse around and found many posts advising people to connect ovens direct to a socket, to be honest I'd rather have in a similar set-up as it is now with dedicated circuit but it's more work. As for appliances - my washer, dryer and dishwasher are all plugged into sockets under benches currently with no separate isolator and I thought this was the norm? they do all have on/off switches anyway and in any emergency the breaker could be switched off!

The oven isolator would not be accessible behind the fridge/freezer so does this mean it's definitely ruled out for supplying the oven? Will it still be ok to power the fridge/freezer and built in microwave on it's current 50a radial?

 

[ericmark]

If once every 10 years for the PIR the fridge/freezer could be dragged out to complete tests then maybe best option is to fit a second isolator powered from first?

As to washing machine isolator if you have ever seen a washing machine when the weights come lose dancing around the kitchen you would never run one over night or without an accessible isolator. You would not want to try to touch washing machine and by time you had run to consumer unit you would need new kitchen.
The same applies to fire once you see flames it is not the time to pull it out to unplug either the plug should come through a hole like used on computer desks and be above counter or you should fit a grid switch as an isolator.

You can get them pre-named

 

[ColJack]

define "wired into an outlet "..

are you saying that the oven is currently wired directly to a cooker outlet plate and protected by a 50A breaker? oh dear...
no fusing down?

what is your power source for the hob? gas? electric?

if you don't need the cooker circuit then by all means convert it to a double socket for the fridge freezer and microwave ( the fusing down will be done by the plug fuses, but changing the breaker to a 32A wouldn't hurt....)
if space allows in the terminals you could wire this to a 20A DP switch or a 13A FCU ( to use as the isolator ) and on to a single socket or flex outlet / cooker conection unit for the oven ( socket for use with 20A DP switch, flex out / CCU for use with the 13A FCU to protect the oven )
you'll likely have a 10mm cable and while some sockets will take 2 6mm's you may struggle to get a 4mm in with the 10mm.. ( and would definitely have to change the breaker to a 32A then.. )

 

[scoobasteve]

Cheers folks - I have had a new CU fitted prior to having new kitchen ring installed so cooker radial is now on a 40amp radial, in 10mm cable, accepting ColJack's point that if the oven is wired direct into a cooker outlet there is no fusing down at all.

 

[scoobasteve]

Re. the issue of this set-up having no fusing down from 40a.

Is this a problem and if so can I put a single socket in place of the cooker outlet and a plug on the end of the cooker flex to fuse down to 13a, meaning the cooker outlet could be re-instated at a later date or should I still replace the 40a breaker?

 

[flameport]

can I put a single socket in place of the cooker outlet and a plug on the end of the cooker flex to fuse down to 13a

Yes. However check the clearance behind the oven first, as a plug and socket will take up more room than the outlet plate does.

 

[spark1]

Dont the phrases " Building Control Notification Work" or " Part P Competant Person Scheme have a Relevance Here ?

 

[scoobasteve]

cheers, plenty of room as cooker going in tall housing so socket can be positioned wherever I need it.

Spark1 - Not installing myself but chasing all the walls out, fitting mounting boxes etc in readiness for electrician who fitted CU to run in new ring and it will be notified - just want to know what's what so I can get everything needed for the job (Electrician happy for me to purchase preferred sockets etc).

 

[spark1]

Hi steve, Pleased to hear about the job being notified etc.

Just one bit of advise ,you may or may not be aware of when chopping out your chases be sure to keep to the safe zones.

 

[scoobasteve]

Cheers, have kept them all horizontal or vertical from the outlet points.