New outdoor power socket

[1pudding1]

Hi,

Id like an outdoor power socket. What do you think about something like this:-

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Ele...+Kit+2G+Sw+Skt++Cable++RCD/d190/sd3138/p27175

What are the disadvantages of using something like this from an exisiting indoor socket?

Thanks.

 

[electronicsuk]

The opinion round here is generally that they are bad news. The advantages are that it's a relatively quick and easy way of installing an outdoors socket.

The disadvantages are that it doesn't get around the need for notification of the work to your LABC, it's dog-rough bringing flex from the outdoor socket and plugging in inside in what is effectively a glorified extension lead, and the cable supplied may not be suitable for use outdoors in a great many locations where mechanical damage is possible or likely.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Looks a bit like an MK Masterseal knock-off. Is it as good?

Disadvantages?

1) It has an RCD plug - do you need one?

2) A bit of flex through the wall into a socket is very tacky - it will never look anything other than a bodge.

3) As it's not pre-wired to the plug it is not a pre-fabricated equipment set and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections, so it is notifiable, if you were hoping it wasn't.


Better to spur off a socket circuit indoors, use an RCD FCU if the circuit isn't RCD protected, or a regular one or a 20A switch if you want to be able to turn it off from inside, through the wall into the back of a Masterseal socket. Seal the rear cable entry well with silicone.

 

[RF Lighting]

You can't use a 20A switch if it's a twin socket. You would need to use a switched FCU.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

That particular (and similar type) piece of kit was designed in order to allow the ordinary householder to avoid the Notification procedure.

It is perfectly 'legal' to install this product without Notification - even though it appears to be a 'loophole'. There again, Part P is full of holes, isn't it? It's simply a fixed extension lead.

It isn't true to say that this product isn't pre-wired. The socket is pre-wired but the RCD plug-top is not (for the obvious reason of passing the flex though the wall), there's no rule or Law to prevent a DIYer from connecting a piece of flex to a plug or an RCD plug. Therefore it complies because it's not part of the fixed installation.

That socket has a suitable IP rating, and it has a sort of RCD protection - that's the important considerations. So where is the problem?


Lucia.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You can't use a 20A switch if it's a twin socket. You would need to use a switched FCU.

Why?

What does BS 1363 say about the maximum load on a twin socket?

 

[RF Lighting]

BS1363 doesn't stop someone plugging more than 13A into it and burning out both the socket and the switch.

An FCU does.

 

[Spark123]

It is perfectly 'legal' to install this product without Notification - even though it appears to be a 'loophole'. There again, Part P is full of holes, isn't it? It's simply a fixed extension lead.

If it is fixed then it falls under the scope of part p, even when supplied by a plugtop.

It isn't true to say that this product isn't pre-wired. The socket is pre-wired but the RCD plug-top is not (for the obvious reason of passing the flex though the wall), there's no rule or Law to prevent a DIYer from connecting a piece of flex to a plug or an RCD plug. Therefore it complies because it's not part of the fixed installation.

I'd say that it isn't "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" hence doesn't get around the notification.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BS1363 doesn't stop someone plugging more than 13A into it and burning out both the socket and the switch.

An FCU does.

So I guess we should ban the use of BS 1363 accessories on circuits rated at more than 20A, because 20A is the total load on the supply cable that they are required to support...

 

[ColJack]

he's not saying that BAS..

the switch is rated at 20A, it can safely switch that without arcing etc right?

the double socket can support 2 13A loads meaning you could have a load of 26A, exceeding the rating of the switch.

if the cable is not rated at least 26A when installed ( assuming spur from a 32A ring) then you're breaking the regs regarding load being less than cable rating ( the fact that you're already breaking the "cable must be rated higher than the OCPD" rule is taken care of by another reg.. )

 

[ban-all-sheds]

the switch is rated at 20A, it can safely switch that without arcing etc right?

Yup.

the double socket can support 2 13A loads meaning you could have a load of 26A, exceeding the rating of the switch.

No - a double socket cannot necessarily support 2 x 13A loads, and is not necessarily able to support >20 on the cable.

20A is all that BS 1363 requires.

 

[ColJack]

by support I meant "physically able to plug in" 2 x 13A loads.., not that the spec of the socket is electrically capable of taking that.

I wasn't trying to debate the inadequacies of the spec, just trying to clarify what I think RF was originally trying to get at.. just that a 20A switch will let more than it's rated for through it where as an FCU won't.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And any twin socket will let through more than it's rated for.

Any design which calls for >20A through a 20A rated twin socket is just as flawed as one which calls for >20A through a 20A rated switch.