Newbie question - new ring

[EFLImpudence]

There is no ring - either necessary or required (quite the opposite) - nor in your drawing.

As said, RCDs will be required.

Are there no lights in this loft?

What is this?

 

[Taylortwocities]

As Winston said, it's a load of spurs off a ring final.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have altered the diagran to show an acceptable method.

Should I post it or would that be inadvisable?

 

[Dinth]

He/she will not only need to to run the cable. Also, connect it at the existing CU, create the new CU in the loft, create the new circuits, test everything. Certificate it all, notify LABC....

Sure thing, although i still need to chase the walls for him, prepare the surface where the new CU will be installed, as i dont want him to screw it to the bare brick, etc.

As said, RCDs will be required.

Are there no lights in this loft?

What is this?

Light is connected to the light circuit, im not taking it into account.
Whole house is protected by two fixed RCDs in my original CU.
This is a busbar which connects MCB to 10mm2 going down to the CU, although i will leave this for a sparky to design.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi. Im trying to design a new ring final circuit for my loft. Can someone please have a look on this draft and assess if there's something wrong in it, etc? I've got no experience or knowledge in electrics and dont know much about Building regs.

But despite those shortcoming you still thought it was OK for you to be doing circuit design, and notifiable building work?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have altered the diagran to show an acceptable method.

Should I post it or would that be inadvisable?

The latter.

And pointless - the guy's electrician has to do the design.

He's going to need provision for air conditioning as well.

 

[Dinth]

But despite those shortcoming you still thought it was OK for you to be doing circuit design, and notifiable building work?

Doing circuit design on a computer screen is far from being a "notifiable work".

The latter.
electrician has to do the design.

Unfortunately, electricians - while having tip-top knowledge about building regs and behaviour of currents in low voltage circuits - are rarely proficient in IT equipment, Z-wave systems or home automation. Wiring this up needs a little bit of both and im an expert when it comes to IT stuff.
Ive tried to design the circuit around my needs and available HA equipment and i admit - this forum made me realise that this was a wrong approach. I need to redesign my HA around a properly designed circuit, but still need to rely on information i find online (unless i will let electrician do his work first... but then i may find out that something is wired in a wrong order or i need an extra mounting box and the circuit will be completely useless!).

KR

 

[Taylortwocities]

The electrician will provide you with sockets and supplies that meet your power requirements. He will not be involved in doing anything on the IT/zwave or whatever.

PS what is a HA? Is it something half amusing?

PPS. Mains voltage IS low voltage..

 

[JohnW2]

PPS. Mains voltage IS low voltage..

I suppose I'm probably wrong (again!) but since he said that electricians had "tip-top knowledge" about low voltage circuits, I rather assumed (I know!) that he was speaking your language as regards LV!

P.S. I assume (again!), given the previous paragraph, that "HA" means Home Automation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[dobby1]

Doing circuit design on a computer screen is far from being a "notifiable work".


Unfortunately, electricians - while having tip-top knowledge about building regs and behaviour of currents in low voltage circuits - are rarely proficient in IT equipment, Z-wave systems or home automation. Wiring this up needs a little bit of both and im an expert when it comes to IT stuff.
Ive tried to design the circuit around my needs and available HA equipment and i admit - this forum made me realise that this was a wrong approach. I need to redesign my HA around a properly designed circuit, but still need to rely on information i find online (unless i will let electrician do his work first... but then i may find out that something is wired in a wrong order or i need an extra mounting box and the circuit will be completely useless!).

KR

It depends. Industrial sparks are proficient in both low and high voltage systems.

I am proficient in IT, networks, software and electrics, so maybe I can be of some use. By HA, are you referring to high availability or home automation ?
What exactly do you fear the electrician will not understand with regards to your setup ?

From a design point of view, your design is over complicated, and down right dangerous.
Giving the spark a rough idea of your vision may be useful. You could always give him insight into the particularities of your setup and let him in on your concerns. I really wouldn't faff around with electrics, it only takes one mistake and the consequence could be potentially fatal.

Anyway, what's your HW setup? Any enterprise gear? or you sticking it through with cheapo and/or opensource?

 

[Dinth]

From a design point of view, your design is over complicated, and down right dangerous.

Yes, ive already acknowledged that. Now i actually feel bad about wasting my time to design it, because i found that there's a ready-made solution which i could have fitted and it's called "Caravan Hook Up point".

Anyway, what's your HW setup? Any enterprise gear? or you sticking it through with cheapo and/or opensource?

All my IT equipment is enterprise grade, but im going opensource way with HA.
I will have two (yeah, everything except actual Zwave/Zigbee transmitter will be redundant) Dell R220 servers working as home automation controllers (OpenHAB or Home Assistant). The bigger server cabinet will have a builtin halon-like fire extinguishing system. Additionally i will have a bunch of Zwave smoke alarms both inside and outside of cabinets, Zwave temperature sensors inside, FLIR camera outside of the cabinets and obviously each device will also feed self-diagniostics data to home automation controller. But all of that will be useless if i wont be able to remotely cut off the power from each cabinet in case something bad actually happens - and unfortunately my choice here is fairly limited - Zwave offers only 6A microswitches, 10A relays and very expensive 40A relays. Ive been also looking into MQTT protocol but i havent found any MQTT relays designed for high currents either.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Doing circuit design on a computer screen is far from being a "notifiable work".

Well, true, you don't need to get approval in advance before playing with designs.

But, design is an integral part of creating an electrical installation, and overall what you are proposing to create is notifiable. You will be required to show how you intend to comply with Part P, and the chance of that not involving compliance with the Wiring Regulations is so small that it can be ignored.

Therefore....

I being the person responsible for the design, construction, inspection & testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design, construction, inspection & testing hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2015 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:
​

Unfortunately, electricians - while having tip-top knowledge about building regs and behaviour of currents in low voltage circuits - are rarely proficient in IT equipment, Z-wave systems or home automation. Wiring this up needs a little bit of both and im an expert when it comes to IT stuff.

What breed of person do you think does the electrical installations in data centres?

Yes, ive already acknowledged that. Now i actually feel bad about wasting my time to design it, because i found that there's a ready-made solution which i could have fitted and it's called "Caravan Hook Up point".

Nothing's been constructed yet, so you could still have one.

But all that is is a small enclosure with an MCB & RCD, or RCBO, supplying an IEC 60309 socket - how on earth is that what you need in your loft?

I'm really struggling to understand what you think you need, and why.


And don't forget the aircon.

 

[aptsys]

Just run the pair of 4mm² in parallel to a consumer unit in the loft protected by a 45A MCB at origin if installation method permits.

 

[Dinth]

I'm really struggling to understand what you think you need, and why.

OK lets completely forget about my design and start from scratch. I need two 16A and two 13A sockets. I need those sockets connected to mains through switch/switches like this http://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-aeon-labs-heavy-duty-switch. Lets keep it simple. Can I just tell my electrician to install one of those caravan hook up units plus two sockets? If that's something I'm looking for, then it would safe time and money for both of us.
Preferably i would like him to reuse two 25mm oval conduits which are chased into a wall behind freshly installed insulation and plaster. Is it even possible to reuse those or he needs to replace them with 30mm oval tube instead? If so then I will need to carefully disassemble plasterboard and insulation on that wall for him.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What 3-4kW loads are you controlling by simply cutting the power to them?